PA: Bolt Serial Won't Match Receiver Serial on Winchester M70

My practice for the guns that I pull the bolts from - others I install trigger locks, but these military ones I pull the bolts - they get a tag on the bolt that says what it is from and what serial number is on that receiver. I do not know (or have not looked) what might be stamped on the bolt body or bolt handle.

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So does this make it a common occurrence, happy mistakes,(thanks Bob Ross) or now is it just a sign of the DGAF times ??
Why bother to etch or stamp the s/n on the bolt in the first place ?
What purpose does it have now....in relation to marrying up with the correct / wrong receivers ?
This is weird and interesting all the same time....hmmmmmm
 
kevin g said:
So does this make it a common occurrence, happy mistakes,(thanks Bob Ross) or now is it just a sign of the DGAF times ??
Why bother to etch or stamp the s/n on the bolt in the first place ?
What purpose does it have now....in relation to marrying up with the correct / wrong receivers ?
This is weird and interesting all the same time....hmmmmmm
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What purpose - for the owner, probably none - for the factory, likely to keep track of the assemblies as they get moved through the plant. Maybe like m96 Swede Mauser's - is only a stamp on the wrist of the original stock to show that the gun was repaired and where - what repair / when it was done / by whom, etc., likely among the paper work at that repair depot - was apparently not actually a concern of the rifle's user - that stamp showed it met specifications when repair completed - in the opinion of someone who likely referred to a list of checks to do - probably all the user "needed" to know. Swap out that stock, and that history is gone - like swapping out a barrel on today's guns - previous "headspace" checks or "proof tests" into that original chamber / original barrel mean nothing - is NOT now the chamber / barrel that was checked, then. I suspect some users want the bolt to have a stamp on them to ID which receiver they go back into - is probably a concern and use of some users - is apparently of no concern to some factory's - some of them have worked out another way to produce a product that someone will buy.

If it is of concern to the user - write down the number that is on the bolt that is removed from a particular receiver - put that tag on that bolt - user will then know which receiver that bolt goes back into.
 
Interchangeability - so that rifle that I purchased new in 2013 was chambered in 458 Win Mag. I spun that barrel off yesterday. In its place I tried to install a 300 Win Mag barrel - same maker, same Model - another new, unfired barrel. When snugged up in the receiver, the "headspace" was less than SAAMI GO gauge for 300 Win Mag. I do not own a chambering reamer for 300 Win Mag, so I will have to make some shims for the rear end of barrel and the barrel tenon shoulder - Mauser 98 barrel likely should make that contact in two places - to set that headspace so that I do not "feel" the GO gauge. The "new" 300 Win Mag barrel is about 1/8 turn away from location that the 458 Win Mag barrel was, so the "Cal 300 Win Mag" stamp on that new barrel is going to be about 1/8 rotation above the stock line, instead of just above the stock line.

I suppose a "pro" would grind or machine a tiny bit off the rear of the bolt lugs to hit headspace? But I do not have the machines or know-how to do that.
 
Charger 426 said:
For whats its worth, I have several bolt action sporting/hunting rifles from the 1920's through '80's and all have matching numbers.
Both Winchesters and Remingtons.
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Per the 1st post, this thread is about new production, FN-Portugal made Winchesters M70s.

Pre '64s are all the rage!
 
Potashminer said:
My practice for the guns that I pull the bolts from - others I install trigger locks, but these military ones I pull the bolts - they get a tag on the bolt that says what it is from and what serial number is on that receiver. I do not know (or have not looked) what might be stamped on the bolt body or bolt handle.

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I do the exact same thing. No mixing up bolts then. (y)

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NAA.
 
fuse said:
Thinking out loud, hard to prove you didn't get it, honestly. Could just show a bank account not receiving it and saying it's not there. Mean while it's in your savings account instead.
If person A sends money to sender B, it seems like there's no way to prove the funds were truly received?
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Potashminer said:
What purpose - for the owner, probably none - for the factory, likely to keep track of the assemblies as they get moved through the plant. Maybe like m96 Swede Mauser's - is only a stamp on the wrist of the original stock to show that the gun was repaired and where - what repair / when it was done / by whom, etc., likely among the paper work at that repair depot - was apparently not actually a concern of the rifle's user - that stamp showed it met specifications when repair completed - in the opinion of someone who likely referred to a list of checks to do - probably all the user "needed" to know. Swap out that stock, and that history is gone - like swapping out a barrel on today's guns - previous "headspace" checks or "proof tests" into that original chamber / original barrel mean nothing - is NOT now the chamber / barrel that was checked, then. I suspect some users want the bolt to have a stamp on them to ID which receiver they go back into - is probably a concern and use of some users - is apparently of no concern to some factory's - some of them have worked out another way to produce a product that someone will buy.

If it is of concern to the user - write down the number that is on the bolt that is removed from a particular receiver - put that tag on that bolt - user will then know which receiver that bolt goes back into.
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Thanks miner...I'm thinking more about the current production stuff that was previously mentioned.

Like...If the plant is stamping all the receivers in numerical order as they're being produced, where are they getting all these different s/n stamped bolts to put in the new rifles ?? they got stamped left overs ? was it reconditioned bolts ? something seems amiss to me...perhaps it's just me and my OCD ways..lol
 
kevin g said:
Thanks miner...I'm thinking more about the current production stuff that was previously mentioned.

Like...If the plant is stamping all the receivers in numerical order as they're being produced, where are they getting all these different s/n stamped bolts to put in the new rifles ?? they got stamped left overs ? was it reconditioned bolts ? something seems amiss to me...perhaps it's just me and my OCD ways..lol
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I do not know what the plants actually do - my guess is part of the plant makes receivers. Another part of the plant has someone assigning serial numbers to those receivers, as they get finished (?) Another part of the plant makes bolts, and some person there invented a system to keep track of those bolts - then, at a fourth place in the plant, some "expert" fits the bolt to a receiver, and likely logs what bolt (number) goes with what receiver (number). Similar is likely occurring with various auxiliary small parts, barrels and stocks. I think "old days", they might have done rifles one by one, but new stuff often made in batches of parts - often by different makers - so each likely develops their own process to keep track of what they produce. Only the final assembler gets to see (or has access to) the number assigned to the receiver and the number assigned to the bolt that has been fitted to that receiver and barrel and stock and auxiliary parts. I suspect at that point, the ultimate customer is irrelevant - is really of no concern to most, except that it "fits" together within spec.

FYI - some references are VERY SPECIFIC that serial numbers on receivers are NOT stamped on in order of production - sometime blocks of serial numbers are reserved for future production - for example, go to Ruger website - try to find a Ruger 77 rifle serial number that starts with 79-###XX - you probably won't - lots of 78-###XX and lots of 80-###XX, but I have two here that start with "79" - one is chambered in 257 Roberts and one in 7x57.

And, for sure, that is actually not "current" I doubt those tang safety Ruger 77 bolt rifles were made since 1980's or so.
 
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Just looked at a modern crf Winchester Model 70 Super Grade I have. It's in .30-06.

On the barrel it says "Model 70 Super Grade" and under "Made in USA, BACO Inc, Morgan, Utah".

The receiver serial number starts with "35CZZ" followed by 5 digits. The underside of the bolt body is stamped with the last 4 digits found on the serial number.

Also, checked my pushfeed Model 70 FW 6.5x55mm. Receiver serial number starts with "G" followed by 7 digits. Last 3 digits are engraved on the underside rear of the bolt body. Barrel on this FW says "Made in New Haven, CONN. U.S.A."

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NAA.
 
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If the bolt numbers do not match, and are indeed a batch number, my question would be, do multiple bolts then have the same number? When they do a batch of 100 or 1000 do they all get the same batch number? Or are the batch numbers differentiated by caliber? We have 50 .308 bolts from batch #23### and 20 .270 bolts from batch #24###?
 
KePet - I am not sure that the number on the bolt has to match the serial number on the receiver - often they do, but I do not think they HAVE to - I just finished assembling a Mauser 98 in 7x57 for myself - so a German (?) surplus receiver, a random bolt bought somewhere because of the sporterized bolt handle and a barrel marked "Alpine Co.", which I think was a British Company. The stock is an elder Ramline synthetic (I do not think that brand exists any more?) The front banded sight is home made by someone in Quebec. The rear sight is a Parker Hale Sportarget sight that has been welded or brazed to a military Mauser 98 cocking piece - so that cocking piece, the bolt shroud and the firing pin and its spring are not original to that bolt. The trigger and sear are not original to that receiver, but now work fine. The bolt lugs now do bear correctly in their seats in the receiver - they did not when I started, but they are lapped in now. The bolt is now timed to the receiver - metal to metal contact when bolt is closed. Headspace is set so the thing closes without feeling the GO gauge, but there is MUCH resistance when attempting to close with a NO GO gauge. The barrel is stamped for the cartridge. Firing pin protrusion is appropriate, and the claw extractor seems to work fine. But the bolt does not have the same number as the receiver. I have not had it "proof tested - I do not know of any facility in Canada or USA to get that done.

No doubt items made in a batch, share the same batch number, but often have their own ID within the batch that they were made in. So far as I know, there is no difference between a bolt for a 308 Win and a bolt for a 270 Win - except to accommodate the receiver the bolt is fitted to - I do not think the cartridge dimensions, of those two cartridges and several others, on the bolt head, are any different to each other. So, probably a bolt for a 243 Win is exactly the same as one for 308 Win - except for setting headspace. Same with 270 Win and 30-06 Springfield - I think the bolts are identical, except for headspace fitting in a particular receiver and chambering installation. Some makers like SAKO and others only make or made one length of action, so most of their bolts will be identical, except for headspace and bolt face size for the particular cartridge.
 
So it appears Miner might be right. Euro spec M70s are manufacture/batch coded, while U.S. editions seem to follow 'tradition'. This seems to confirm Winchester's response, though I suspect there is a fitting step being skipped or eliminated across the pond.
 
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Thinking about this some more, it's actually kinda refreshing that the bolts on Portugal M70's don't have to fitted individually and serialized any more. Perhaps the M70 design and manufacturing has actually "grown up" and attained the kind of fit and finish that many European rifles have enjoyed for some time. All the bolts on my three Sauer 202's are completely interchangeable. As are the 6 barrels. Blaser R8 ( and earlier Blaser models), the Mauser M03, and several other European makes also enjoy this level of precision manufacturing tolerances. There is no need to individually fit parts to a particular firearm because they're all built so well.
I'd be really impressed if my recently purchased M70 wasn't shipped with defective weak striker spring that caused misfires one of every three shots and had to be replaced with a factory warranty replacement. Oh well, I suppose they're making progress. But over all I tend to prefer European and especially German firearms for their precision manufacturing and attention to every detail before they leave the factory.
 
diemaco said:
My Portuguese supergrade does not appear to match, although you can barely make out the number on the bolt.
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I've got a Portuguese 2023 made Stainless featherweight in 6.5 Creedmoor. I just went and checked and the number stamped on the bolt (very hard to read) and it is indeed different from the serial number.

I don't really care. But it was something I wasn't aware of before so thanks for the heads up OP.
 
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