PAL required?

blargon said:
Hogwash. Your hunting license will prove you are a hunter...Has nothing to do with a PAL.
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Prior to January 1st 2019 the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry (OMNRF) was issuing two distinct Ontario Outdoors Cards: a Hunting Card and a Fishing Card. The hunting cards had 4 different codes on them:
H1 (all firearms*), Ontario resident 15 years+: Required the completion of the Canadian Firearms Safety Course, Ontario Hunter Education Course and successfully challenging the Ontario Hunter Education Course Exam
H2 (all firearms*, except guns), Ontario resident 15 years+: Required only the completion of Ontario Hunter Education Course and successfully challenging the Ontario Hunter Education Course Exam.
A1 (all firearms*), Ontario resident 12 years+: Required the completion of the Canadian Firearms Safety Course, Ontario Hunter Education Course and successfully challenging the Ontario Hunter Education Course Exam.
A2 (all firearms*, except guns), Ontario resident 12 years+: Required only the completion of Ontario Hunter Education Course and successfully challenging the Ontario Hunter Education Course Exam.
H stood for hunter and A for apprentice.
Note: the definition of firearm according to the Ontario Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997 includes an air gun, pellet gun, bow or crossbow.
Therefore an H1 or A1 Hunting Outdoors Card allowed you to hunt with a “gun” and an H2 or A2 Outdoors Card allowed you to hunt with a bow or crossbow only. A Conservation Officer could see by asking for your Outdoors Card whether you were allowed to hunt with a gun or only with a bow.
Starting January 1st 2019 adopted a single format of Outdoors Card and it no longer indicates which hunter certification you have successfully completed (the former H1, A1 and H2, A2 codes explained above). This information is now on file with the Fish and Wildlife Licensing Service. The hunting licenses you purchase does not say which certification you have either. The only way a Conservation Officer can validate if you are a certified “gun” hunter while completing a hunter inspection is by asking for your PAL. This is why this requirement is now spelled out in the Ontario Hunting Regulations.
 
You are correct, and this is where I struggle with the requirement to show a valid PAL when hunting with any "gun" in Ontario. The Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources will ask for a valid PAL even if you are hunting with a firearm type that doesn't require you to have one under the Firearms Act (federal law). It is a stretch and it may be challenged.
 
tokguy said:
There's the 577 Snider though...lots of Sharps offerings. You could be hunting with one of them and not require a PAL...they are a firearm and do not require a permit to own, no?
A PAL might still be required for the license...but would a PAL be required for hunting, that is the question that needs asking?
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You are correct, and this is where I struggle with the requirement to show a valid PAL when hunting with any "gun" in Ontario. The Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources will ask for a valid PAL even if you are hunting with a firearm type that doesn't require you to have one under the Firearms Act (federal law). It is a stretch and it may be challenged.
 
I saw a CO in BC ticket two hunters they caught without any of their paperwork with them, including their PAL. It was all back in camp.
 
So if you have a hunting card/licence can you hunt with a borrowed firearm, or the fact that you have in your posession a firearm you must have a PAL?
 
On page 18 of the Ontario 2020 Hunting Regulation Summary it states the following: "If you are in possession of a gun for the purpose of hunting in Ontario, you are required to carry PROOF of your firearm accreditation under the Firearms Act." Further on in that same paragraph it states, "Every gun hunter must carry one of the following: a valid PAL, a valid minors license or a stamped copy of the CFSC student report as official documentation."
Next paragraph down it states: "You are required to produce this documentation to a conservation officer upon request."
If you are hunting in Ontario it looks like the rule is pretty clear, you need to be able to provide proof that you are legally allowed to be in possession of the firearm.
Should you chose non-compliance, you must accept the attendant risks.
I'm out of this discussion now. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving everyone!
 
blargon said:
A CO does not need to ask for your PAL to prove you are a hunter. Guaranteed they will ask for your hunting license though. I have never been asked for my PAL by a CO.

I know lots of PAL holders that are not licensed hunters.
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I thought you had read through this thread. What you quoted me on is a continuation of my response (post 13) to dude at post 5.
 
Crossbuck said:
The only way a Conservation Officer can validate if you are a certified “gun” hunter while completing a hunter inspection is by asking for your PAL. This is why this requirement is now spelled out in the Ontario Hunting Regulations.
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BS. If you are doing anything with a firearm you must have your PAL. It has nothing to do with hunting. If a CO stops you while hunting with a firearm (according to the CCC) you better have a PAL. If a CO stops you with a pellet gun, although in terms of hunting, you are using a firearm, it is not a type of firearm that requires a firearms license so you are fine.
 
coreyd said:
BS. If you are doing anything with a firearm you must have your PAL. It has nothing to do with hunting. If a CO stops you while hunting with a firearm (according to the CCC) you better have a PAL. If a CO stops you with a pellet gun, although in terms of hunting, you are using a firearm, it is not a type of firearm that requires a firearms license so you are fine.
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It's a sure thing that the CO isn't going to know the loopholes in the firearms laws. If you are hunting with a firearm that isn't a firearm ( antique), you might want to have a copy of the CCC pertaining to the exemption...likely save a trip to court...not as big of a deal to the CO...they would be getting paid to learn they were wrong.
As opposed to; at the least, your lost time...maybe lawyer fees on top.
 
I explained what the laws and regulations are in Ontario under the Fish and wildlife Act act, 1997 and its regulations. Conservation Officers are not appointed to enforce the Criminal Code in Ontario.

You are welcome to draw your own conclusions and have a right to your opinion.

I am done with this tread. Good luck in your endeavors.
 
coreyd said:
BS. If you are doing anything with a firearm you must have your PAL. It has nothing to do with hunting. If a CO stops you while hunting with a firearm (according to the CCC) you better have a PAL. If a CO stops you with a pellet gun, although in terms of hunting, you are using a firearm, it is not a type of firearm that requires a firearms license so you are fine.
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I explained what the laws and regulations are in Ontario under the Fish and wildlife Act act, 1997 and its regulations. Conservation Officers are not appointed to enforce the Criminal Code in this province.

You are free to interpret the information in any way that you want and come up with your own conclusions. You also have the right to your opinion.

I am done with this tread. Good luck in your endeavors.
 
coreyd said:
BS. If you are doing anything with a firearm you must have your PAL. It has nothing to do with hunting. If a CO stops you while hunting with a firearm (according to the CCC) you better have a PAL. If a CO stops you with a pellet gun, although in terms of hunting, you are using a firearm, it is not a type of firearm that requires a firearms license so you are fine.
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I explained what the laws and regulations are in Ontario under the Fish and wildlife Act act, 1997 and its regulations. Conservation Officers are not appointed to enforce the Criminal Code in Ontario.

You are welcome to draw your own conclusions and have a right to your opinion.

I am done with this tread. Good luck in your endeavors.
 
The only way Conservation Officers can establish if you are certified hunter is by requesting your PAL
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A PAL is a federal license, required by anyone to be able to possess or acquire a firearm, a PAL in no way certifies a person as a hunter. And since it is a federal license, it must be carried regardless of which province you are in possession of a firearm in.
 
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Crossbuck said:
I explained what the laws and regulations are in Ontario under the Fish and wildlife Act act, 1997 and its regulations. Conservation Officers are not appointed to enforce the Criminal Code in Ontario.

You are welcome to draw your own conclusions and have a right to your opinion.

I am done with this tread. Good luck in your endeavors.
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You made a claim that the only way a CO can determine if you are a certified hunter is by looking at a PAL. My kids are licensed hunters yet have no PAL. Jest because you decided to inject all kinds of other stuff into your argument doesn't make your original claim correct. Also, CO's most certainly can and do enforce the CCC.
 
Ed Smurf said:
So if you have a hunting card/licence can you hunt with a borrowed firearm, or the fact that you have in your posession a firearm you must have a PAL?
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It's illegal to possess a firearm without a license. If you borrow a firearm you will be in possession. If you are accompanied by someone with a license and they are close enough to satisfy law enforcement that you are under their direct supervision you'll be o.k., but the regulations don't specify how close is close enough.

You don't need a PAL to hunt with a firearm, you need it to be lawfully in possession of a firearm, same as when you aren't hunting.

Provincial hunting regulations cannot exempt you from the Criminal Code regulations on firearms.
 
You should always have your PAL on you, regardless if you have a firearm with you or not.

How else are you supposed to snap up a good deal that you blunder upon? Go home and get your PAL and risk the wife catching wind of your hijinx?
 
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