Pattern 1903 bayonet questions.

[Threemorewishes]

Hello Milsurp forum,

I have a Pattern 1903 bayonet with scabbard that I'm trying to gather information about (who used it, rarity, value, is it a repro?). There are a jumble of markings on the blade and scabbard and I'm not sure what is what. There are also stampings on the handle spine that I cannot decipher as well as a few clear ones like a big C, an 8, a crown with a 5 and W under it.

Thanks for any input you may have,

Greg

 

[Mk VII]

Looks alright. Has been inspected in '06, '08, '09 and possibly some other dates.
The scabbard is a Patt. '88 one, which is very common with these ones as the later scabbards turned out not to be very durable. The leatherwork was made by Barrow, Hepburn & Gale in 1939, probably as spare parts to repair unserviceable scabbards - I have found mention in the MoS contract books of Parker-Hale getting a contract to make some '88 parts even later.

 

[Cottage Hill Bill]

It's a little hard to tell from the photo but I think you have a P1903 made from a P1888 blade, a very common practice. It looks like there is an original manufacture date of '00 (1900) though I can't see the month. That would make it a P1888 MkIII. The MkIII had screws and nuts holding the grips on rather than the brass rivets of the earlier models. That made them an easy conversion to the P1903. Many if not most of the P1888 MkIIIs were converted to P1903s which is why the MkIII is the hardest of the P1888s to find. Nice bayo.

 

[7ECA]

Probably ended up in British India for a stretch, being that the Indians liked the shorter bayonets on the SMLE - hence the various short patterns they made up for the 1907 pattern bayonet.

Looks like a purpose built 1903, doesn't appear to be a converted 1888 - mind you I'm probably wrong.

 

[Cottage Hill Bill]

I may well have to recant. I locked in on that big '00 on the bottom right in the pic of the ricasso, but looking again I see the ER on the royal cypher which would mean production after 1901.

 

[Robbs]

I don't see the "crowfoot" British military proof mark on the blade near the pommel. Most genuine 1903 bayonets I have seen have the crowfoot proof mark.

 

[Threemorewishes]

I don't see the "crowfoot" British military proof mark on the blade near the pommel. Most genuine 1903 bayonets I have seen have the crowfoot proof mark.

Is the "crowfoot" the mark above the letters EFD? It is faint, but it is there.

Here's a picture taken with a Digital Mobile Magnifier.

 

[Cottage Hill Bill]

The broad arrow (crowsfoot) is there, the very faint double curved line just above EFD. I just looked at a pristine P1888 MkIII I have. It is dated 1 '03 (Jan 1903) so I'm going back to my original opinion that it is a converted P1888. That makes no difference, it is a nice, genuine P1903. There were simply two variations of P1903, converted P1888 and made new as P1903. Both models are legitimate and correct. I just looked at 4 P1888s I have easily at hand, all EFD. It almost looks like the EFD and broad arrow are part of the same stamp. The shaft of the arrow is barely discernible.

 

[Threemorewishes]

The broad arrow (crowsfoot) is there, the very faint double curved line just above EFD. I just looked at a pristine P1888 MkIII I have. It is dated 1 '03 (Jan 1903) so I'm going back to my original opinion that it is a converted P1888. That makes no difference, it is a nice, genuine P1903. There were simply two variations of P1903, converted P1888 and made new as P1903. Both models are legitimate and correct. I just looked at 4 P1888s I have easily at hand, all EFD. It almost looks like the EFD and broad arrow are part of the same stamp. The shaft of the arrow is barely discernible.

Any idea as to value of this particular bayonet? Thanks

 

[7ECA]

Looks to be in pretty nice shape, not buggered with, etc. 1903s are somewhat rare, certainly rarer than 1888s or 1907s - which had significantly higher production numbers. You're looking at a bayonet that was only produced for four years; until it was superseded by the Pattern 1907 (requirement to have a bayonet/rifle combination that would result in five feet of reach, to dismount cavalry).

I'd say around $300. 1903s are usually a hole in someones collection of British/Commonwealth bayonets, so you'll sell it quickly; if that's what you're looking to do. Prices online for 1903s are generally insane, with some British sites asking over $1000 CAD for them.

 

[Threemorewishes]

Thanks for all the information.

 

[Cottage Hill Bill]

Best price guide if you are going to flog it is to look at SOLD auctions on ebay for the same item. I think $300 is optimistic but then I haven't checked P1903 prices for a few months.