PCCs at up to 200 yards?

wasa

wasa

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So, my rifles for 3-gun matches in Canada are not allowed to be temporarily imported into the US on my Form 6 (Type 81 & SKS). I have both a Ruger PC-9 (currently with a red dot) and a Hi-Point 995TS (currently with a 1.5-4.5x32 scope) on my Form 6 already and my first US match is this Sunday. I was told by the organizers that for the rifle stage we may be engaging targets up to 200 yards away (but for sure at 100 yards) and that I am allowed to use my PCC (but of course was warned that I would be at a disadvantage. Ha ha).

To be honest, I'm going for fun and as long as I don't get a DQ and finish the match it will, to me, be a successful match.

But, to maximize my fun and to actually try to place in the middle of the pack, I am wondering if others have been shooting their PCC at up to 200 yards.

I am currently using W231 with 115gr Campro projectiles in my 9mm loads, and using the same rounds in my pistol and PCC. For this Sunday's match, I am planning on reloading some "rifle" 9mm rounds as per my Lyman manual (Alliant Power Pistol or Blue Dot). Lyman says their test gun was a Ruger PC-9 and they measured 1409 ft/s at maximum charge with Power Pistol (the Ruger is rated at +P but Lyman claims these are not +P loads).

An online Shooters Calculator estimates that if I sight my rifle in for 6" high at 100 yards (the longest distance at my local range) I would be hitting about 15" low at 200 yards.

Yes, the real solution if I am going to shoot a bunch of US matches I need to get a 223 or 7.62x39 that I can bring over the border. But for now, what are other's thoughts and experience with using a 9mm PCC out to 200 yards?

Thanks, and if you are going to the BWSA on Sunday I'll see you there!
 
Does your scope have a hold over style reticle? Hold over is going to be the issue and it would be easier with some reference marks, otherwise it's just a matter of figuring the drop and eyeballing it.
 
A while ago, I experimented with loads for PC Charger:

CFE Pistol 5.9gr Campro 115 gr RNHP - 1335 fps
HS-6 7.0gr Campro 115 gr RNHP - 1345 fps

Hollowpoints are slightly longer - in theory, it should improve ballistics. The above loads were okay at 100m, haven't tried beyond that.

It would be nice to run it at ~1500 fps, gassy, compensated, but with blowback action there's only so much one can do. Your barrel is 3x longer, this might help.
 
5.45 said:
A while ago, I experimented with loads for PC Charger:

CFE Pistol 5.9gr Campro 115 gr RNHP - 1335 fps
HS-6 7.0gr Campro 115 gr RNHP - 1345 fps

Hollowpoints are slightly longer - in theory, it should improve ballistics. The above loads were okay at 100m, haven't tried beyond that.

It would be nice to run it at ~1500 fps, gassy, compensated, but with blowback action there's only so much one can do. Your barrel is 3x longer, this might help.
Click to expand...

Great news! Are these velocities measured via chronograph, or estimated? I figure the 18.5" barrels should give me at least 150 ft/s to 200 ft/s more velocity than out of a pistol.
 
I shot my pc carbine with 9mm 115 campro at 200 yards. I think it was 5.1 gn cfe pistol powder. I aimed about 3 ft higher than gong. Was making hits about 1 in 4 shots. But the red dot I was using wasn’t sighted perfect so I was aiming way high and left with Kentucky windage. It’s doable and shouldn’t be too hard with practice and getting it dialed in. The 115 gn bullets are flatter shooting than the heavier 9mm options too.
 
You'll be fine if you know your drop dope and practice at that range.

Or, if you have a BDC reticle and practice at that range.

Or, if you set up two sighting systems and practice at that range: For example, your magnified optic zeroed for 100+ and, irons or offset RDS for close in.

In any case, it'll be a hell of a lot of fun!
 
I've definitely done it out of my Kriss Vector to that distance, but it was minute of beach ball at best. I was using 147gr Campro's ahead of 3.5gr Titegroup out of a 18.6" barrel. No info on chronograph, but they did the job on a 2/3 silhouette at 200m, although it took more rounds than I'd like. Also for reference I was using a Vortex AMG UH-1 with a 3x magnifier behind it.
 
Thanks all! I loaded up 550 round of "rifle" 9mm rounds with 6.6 gr Power Pistol under 115gr Campro projectiles. Off to my local range tomorrow morning to see how the shoot in my two PCCs. Will probably try to sight the Ruger (red dot) in at 100 yards, and the scoped Hi-Point 6-9" high at 100 yards so when I find out the course of fire on Sunday I have my plan which PCC to use.

As an aside, it appears that only my Lyman manual has load data for 9mm Rifle. Nothing in my Hornady, Sierra, Nosler, or Lee manuals, and nothing on Hodgdon or Western Powder's website. Does anyone know of any other published load data for shooting 9mm out of a rifle? Thx!
 
wasa said:
... Does anyone know of any other published load data for shooting 9mm out of a rifle? Thx!
Click to expand...

I've never seen any - Which Lyman manual has it?

If I want greater MV out of the longer barrel, I just go to slower and slower powders until I get where I want. It can do weird things with the straight blowback action though, I think. Cast bullets can help. I've been meaning to start a thread in the reloading forum for loading for straight blowback actions.
 
Well, back from my first USA match. Got 4th in the Limited class (out of 6 LOL) and 20th overall (out of 30 registered shooters).

The longest rifle target was about 125 yards. Steel plates about 12" in diameter. Or 18"? They were far away and we didn't walk up to them. Most rifle targets were cardboard at 25 or 50 yards. Was some steel at ~ 75 yards (distances are approximate....).

Took my 9mm "rifle" loads and sighted in the Ruger PC-9 at 100 yards. Group size was maybe 12" or so? From a bench. Being "Limited" class no magnified optics so had a Tasco Red Dot on the firearm. The red dot covered at least 8" diameter at 100 yards so not sure what accuracy I was expecting. My Hi-Point, with it's 1.5-4.5 scope, could not group within 24" so it stayed home. Maybe I will try BlueDot powder and see if the Hi-Point can group with those loads.

Got to shoot my first suppressed AR-15 (just 5 shots - fun!) One guy brought a full automatic M14 for one draw winner to dump a magazine (I did not win but watched a fellow Canadian win and shoot the firearm - wow).

Overall, a great time with super friendly people. 5 of us Canadians were there (all shooters from SW Ontario).

Alpining - I have 9mm Rifle load data in my Lyman 48th edition. It is also in my buddy's Lyman 49th Edition. There is also data in "The Complete Reloading Manual for the 9mm" under the Sierra bullet section, but I was not able to find this data in my copy of the 6th edition of Sierra's manual.
 
wasa said:
Thanks all! I loaded up 550 round of "rifle" 9mm rounds with 6.6 gr Power Pistol under 115gr Campro projectiles. Off to my local range tomorrow morning to see how the shoot in my two PCCs. Will probably try to sight the Ruger (red dot) in at 100 yards, and the scoped Hi-Point 6-9" high at 100 yards so when I find out the course of fire on Sunday I have my plan which PCC to use.

As an aside, it appears that only my Lyman manual has load data for 9mm Rifle. Nothing in my Hornady, Sierra, Nosler, or Lee manuals, and nothing on Hodgdon or Western Powder's website. Does anyone know of any other published load data for shooting 9mm out of a rifle? Thx!
Click to expand...

just remember, with a red dot its easier to aim low at short range then high at long range....
 
I've not shot to more than 100 yards with my PCC - a TNW ASR 9mm - so don't know how it might perform. And I don't get out to shoot it much. Finally had a brief chance to zero the scope I put on it last year on a hike in March, but it was a long day and I had to head back after just 10 shots so as not to be out in the woods after dark and risk getting lost. Anyway, this shows the last 2 shots at 100, after 4 turret corrections between sets of 2. I made slight further adjustments after these two to theoretically get it within the bull - a target patch sticker.

This is using a VisionKing 2-10x FFP scope. Heck of a bargain, these VisionKing products. I have one of their little night vision monoculars too and that thing works great for the low price. This scope functions very nicely, the view is great with no distortion, and the zooming reticle makes for very easy holdover estimation even at 100 yards, besides making it easy to see the 9mm holes. Next time I get out I hope to do a few 10-shot groups at 100 to make certain it's spot on. But it seems from my zeroing exercise that a) the green laser boresight tool I picked up was good enough to get my first 2 shots on paper, and b) that the Aero barrel is capable of giving me 2MOA or smaller groups while resting on a backpack. Though these two are sub-MOA - 0.625" centre to centre - I'm not going to claim that accuracy with just a 2 shot test, and a couple of the other pairs on the target were closer to 1.2".

TNW_Aero_9mm_100yards_Winchester147gr_JHP.jpg


I considered going 'high speed, low drag' with a dot sight on the PCC, but I'm not a competition shooter and prefer going for tight groups on paper, informally. Became a bit of an addiction after a few years of competing a decade ago in 10m air pistol, always looking for sub-dime groups during home practice with the Pardini. I know the TNW isn't capable of elite level accuracy, and 9mm would be a silly choice for benchrest anyway, but it's a handy little carbine and I want it to hit what I point at. A red dot at even 50 yards covers too much of the target for my tastes.
 
wasa said:
Well, back from my first USA match. Got 4th in the Limited class (out of 6 LOL) and 20th overall (out of 30 registered shooters).

The longest rifle target was about 125 yards. Steel plates about 12" in diameter. Or 18"? They were far away and we didn't walk up to them. Most rifle targets were cardboard at 25 or 50 yards. Was some steel at ~ 75 yards (distances are approximate....).

Took my 9mm "rifle" loads and sighted in the Ruger PC-9 at 100 yards. Group size was maybe 12" or so? From a bench. Being "Limited" class no magnified optics so had a Tasco Red Dot on the firearm. The red dot covered at least 8" diameter at 100 yards so not sure what accuracy I was expecting. My Hi-Point, with it's 1.5-4.5 scope, could not group within 24" so it stayed home. Maybe I will try BlueDot powder and see if the Hi-Point can group with those loads.

Got to shoot my first suppressed AR-15 (just 5 shots - fun!) One guy brought a full automatic M14 for one draw winner to dump a magazine (I did not win but watched a fellow Canadian win and shoot the firearm - wow).

Overall, a great time with super friendly people. 5 of us Canadians were there (all shooters from SW Ontario).

Alpining - I have 9mm Rifle load data in my Lyman 48th edition. It is also in my buddy's Lyman 49th Edition. There is also data in "The Complete Reloading Manual for the 9mm" under the Sierra bullet section, but I was not able to find this data in my copy of the 6th edition of Sierra's manual.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good time was had!
:)
 
wasa said:
...
Alpining - I have 9mm Rifle load data in my Lyman 48th edition. It is also in my buddy's Lyman 49th Edition. There is also data in "The Complete Reloading Manual for the 9mm" under the Sierra bullet section, but I was not able to find this data in my copy of the 6th edition of Sierra's manual.
Click to expand...

Interesting, thanks for the lead.

Glad the shoot went well, it's all a learning experience!
 
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