People misunderstanding milsurps

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Eaglelord17

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Hi all,

Just wanted to comment on something I saw today on the EE and have seen in the past, and felt I might clarify for others as if you don't fully understand the meaning of marking you can be confused as to what information can be gleaned from them.

The marking I specifically saw being misread is the 'C' Broad Arrow marking. This marking when applied to No. 1 Mk. 3s and No. 1 Mk. 3*s produced 1918 and earlier everyone seems to think means it was used by the Canadians during the Great War (WWI) due to the fact the rifle was made during WWI or earlier. The reality is all it means was it was in Canadian service sometime in its life. Just because that specific firearm was made in say 1915 or 1918 doesn't mean it went to Canada at that point, just that it went to Canada sometime before 1949 (officially when the stamping of the 'C' Broad Arrow stopped, but I have seen 1954 dated things with it). That means that a 1915 rifle could have been given/bought by Canada in the interwar years etc. The rifle still may have been used in the Great War, it is just no guarantee it was used by Canadians (at that point).

Just thought I would clarify that as I have seen it several times, and it seems to be a common misunderstanding.
 
Deciphering the markings on a rifle is sometimes like reading a book. Each of the factory inspector marks. government ownership stamps and unit markings tell a piece of its history. It is almost like detective work figuring out where a rifle might have been and who might have used it.

The C broad arrow was introduced around 1906 when the British Garrisons withdrew leaving Canada to defend its own borders.

The C broad arrow was used (as noted above) up until 1949 when it was replaced with a stylised maple leaf. It was stamped, printed, painted, on pretty much anything that didn't move and lots of stuff that did. Along with many other items, I have a revolver, a tin tea mug, and a pair of underpants, and a shovel all marked with the C broad arrow. The underpants are dated 1951, they are unissued and never went to war.

It is simply a marking that denotes ownership by the Canadian Govt. The Canadian equivalent to the British WD broad arrow.
 
englishman_ca said:
... I have a ... a pair of underpants... with the C broad arrow. The underpants are dated 1951, they are unissued and never went to war.

...
Click to expand...


This may come under the category of too much information..... :)
 
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There are other markings which people generally misunderstand such as the 'S' marking on Gewehr 88s (many people believe it denotes having a .323 bore, I can safely tell you it doesn't mean that). As mentioned each marking tells a story, or at least part of one, the tough part is figuring out exactly what the story being told is. Putting multiple markings together can give you the full picture or it can leave you with a broken story which only tells a bit of its history.
 
Don't forget that every grandpa was a sniper. As a little kid, one of my buddies showed me his Dad's "war rifle". It was a pump .22.

I have collected milsurps for years, and don't pretend to know much. I get schooled at every gun show! :redface:
 
To be unless it should have a C broad arrow it doesn't mean much.

Dealers have been humping up items by applying C broad arrows to them for a very long time. These stamps/dies were not all that rare, and it was an easy way to make a few bucks at a gunshow.

Regards,
-Steve
 
Another misunderstood marking/finish is in regards to Belgian firearms. Parkerized Belgian firearms were not specifically 'Marine' firearms. It was simply one of several ways the Belgians refinished there rifles. It may have been issued to Naval forces just by off chance, but it wasn't something specifically requested or required by Naval forces.

I don't know where this myth started but I suspect it was due to someone trying to market there wears back in the day coupled with a lack of information on Belgian firearms being around. A good book on Mausers made by FN is "FN Mauser Rifles : Arming Belgium and the World" by Anthony Vanderlinden, in which he specifically addresses this particular myth.
 
I have a #1 mk3* with a C Broad that, although made in 1918, almost definitely wasn't used by Canada, or likely anyone, in WWI. If it was made in 1918 and got the C Broad, most likely what happened is that Canada picked it up after the war from surplus New Old Stock from the English the fill out our arsenals. Large numbers came our way in exactly that manner.

People forget how long it takes inventory to work its way through the supply chain.
 
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