Percussion Revolver questions from a Replica Revolver Newb

[PsyEx]

Got a question for everyone that shoot 1851 Navy pistols (replica's). or Any percussion revolver for that matter.

What do you use in your shooting iron and why? I understand these are highly open to personal preference but I am new to the BP scene and although I read a lot personal opinions I find can be invaluable.

Do you use patch, bore buttons, Semolina, or what behind your ball? What have you found works best? or do you use nothing at all?

IF some Guru or SME could explain to me the difference between BP, Pyrodex, and Triple 7, beyond the obvious of BP being the original and others being substitutes. I would appreciate it. Is there any advantage to substitutes and how and why are they safer then BP?.

To the BP shooters in Edmonton, AB. where is a place to Get Goex or Swiss? Some of the place I ask look at you like you just spoke a dirty word.

BEFORE someone says use the Search button I have and the search Engine on CGN sucks for the most part. Love the forum, the search engine always comes up empty for me. Thanks everyone in Advance. I appreciate any help you can give me.

 

[arquebusierKebec]

I do have a Remington 1858 new model army and here is my recipe:
I pour 28gr of FFF goex BP in an empty chamber, then 7gr of corn meal #120 (about the same size as FFF powder), a 0.454 pure lead ball and some crisco on top to seal the chamber.

I try to have the ball seated flush with the mouth of the chamber to improve accuracy. The ball has less travel to do before reaching the forcing cone. But don't use to much powder and filler if you don't want to have a ball half stock in the chamber and no more room for it!

Some times i forget to put the crisco, never had any issue, the ball is doing a ring of lead when fully seated and seal the chamber. But one shooter of my club got a chain reaction between 2 chambers once... with no injuries to anybody nor the gun.

Never heard that someone used a patched ball in a cap and ball revolver. You can use a felt wad between the powder and the ball, but corn meal is doing the job in my case. A fellow shooter is not using anything between the powder and the ball with no problem. But if you just want to shoot with 15gr of powder, the ball sit very low in the chamber, which may affect accuracy.

I also shoot BP long guns and started 10 years ago with pyrodex since that's what sellers in my region had in stock. When I first joined my club not long after that, they converted me to the "real" stuff and I never got back to pyrodex.

Honestly, both where doing the same job. Same accuracy, no missfire, you must wash the gun after firing it using hot water and soap in both case. They do not smell the same though, I prefer BP

Never tried triple 7 but from what other shooters tell me, it can be washed with only water and it burns with less fouling.

I don't think that substitutes are any safer. You can get more information here http://www.hodgdon.com/loading.html about the volume of pyrodex and triple seven required for the same energy and pressure generated by real black powder. Pyrodex seems to be the same as black powder where triple seven requires 15% less volume to achieve the same performance.

For your search problem, be sure to change the "Find Posts from" value to something greater than "A week ago" if you want to find something that is not currently discussed!

Hope this help

 

[Skinny 1950]

I have 3 of the open top 1851 type revolvers two are .36 cal. and one is .44 cal (Pietta Yank).
I have had trouble with caps jamming up the cylinder on all of them and have settled on Remington #11 caps as they are shorter than CCI # 11's and don't seem to fragment as bad.
I have tried Jim Shockey's Yukon Gold..Hodgdon Triple Seven and Goex FFFG. I found that the substitutes tend to carbon up the trigger internal parts requiring a complete tear-down every 100-150 rounds. A given volume of the substitutes will be more powerful but the carbon deposits are a problem.
For the .36 Cal.I have settled on 18 grains of Goex FFFG with some corn meal to fill the chamber leaving room for the ball (.375 diameter). The minimum load is 15 grains the recommended load is 18 grains and the maximum is 20 grains.
The modern reproductions can have the chamber filled with black powder instead of using corn meal but it is a waste of powder and leads to carbon build up.
After loading the cylinders I use vegetable shortening to seal the ends of the chambers to prevent chain-fires. In the summer a bit of bee's wax in the shortening will stiffen it up so it doesn't run off.
There are others with more experience that can add to this basic over-view.
The 1851 is a well balanced naturally pointing gun for one handed shooting and one that I own actually comes close to hitting the point of aim.

 

[tokguy]

I've heard 777 gives more power for a similiar loading. Good in a closed solid frame, not so good in an open top like a navy. I use Pyro in mine; .454 balls and a lard / beeswax mixture, my Navy is a Pietta. Seems to work good for me.
Black Powder is cool but hard to find.

 

[Olof]

I've heard 777 gives more power for a similiar loading. Good in a closed solid frame, not so good in an open top like a navy. I use Pyro in mine; .454 balls and a lard / beeswax mixture, my Navy is a Pietta. Seems to work good for me.
Black Powder is cool but hard to find.

777 is 15% more powerful than the same load of BP. It produces the smoke, but not the same amount of sparks, and flame as good 'ol GOEX. If you are loading cartridges use FFg rather than FFFg. apparently FFFg is 15% more powerful than FFG (777). This info is from another forum with a lot of BP shooters.

I loaded up some .45 colt with a 250 gr. bullet, using a LEE 1.9 cc. dipper to fill the casing. 777 requires little or no compression, so the bullet should touch the powder. My BP load is 250 gr. bullet with a load of powder using the 2.5 cc. dipper. GOEX FFg

I bought the 777 mainly for shotgun loads (cowboy action). The .45 loads recoiled more than my BP loads. Not significantly more, just noticeable.

It is worth the time working on a load that works well. 777 is much easier to find compared to BP.

The other thing about 777 is that you can use bullets lubed for smokeless powder. BP requires bullets lubed with a good BP bullet lube like SPG.

 

[PsyEx]

Thanks for all the replies. Been looking around Edmonton here and all I could get was pyrodex p. I was warned about it being very hydroscopic and how to wash out my revolver. Chip at wholesale sports was quite knowledgable and helpful. I did check out Lock and Load felt like I was walking into my father in laws shed. Stuff everywhere, 3guys chatting over the counter. One guy, the owner I think, helped me but had nothing I needed. He does sell Goex and was supposed to get some in this week but as he said weeks over and it's not here. I will phone next time. Seemed disorganized. I have heard good things about this place but I have to say first impressions are everything, and I was none to impressed with Lock and Load, maybe it was an off day. I laughed when I realized I had asked about a patched ball, I had just been reading about flinter pistols that is where that came from. I do not have a BP cartridge gun... Yet. This is a whole new exciting genre for me, soon. The Father in law has a really nice Mauser that uses BP nice gun kicks like a mule.

 

[Olof]

Thanks for all the replies. Been looking around Edmonton here and all I could get was pyrodex p. I was warned about it being very hydroscopic and how to wash out my revolver. Chip at wholesale sports was quite knowledgable and helpful. I did check out Lock and Load felt like I was walking into my father in laws shed. Stuff everywhere, 3guys chatting over the counter. One guy, the owner I think, helped me but had nothing I needed. He does sell Goex and was supposed to get some in this week but as he said weeks over and it's not here. I will phone next time. Seemed disorganized. I have heard good things about this place but I have to say first impressions are everything, and I was none to impressed with Lock and Load, maybe it was an off day. I laughed when I realized I had asked about a patched ball, I had just been reading about flinter pistols that is where that came from. I do not have a BP cartridge gun... Yet. This is a whole new exciting genre for me, soon. The Father in law has a really nice Mauser that uses BP nice gun kicks like a mule.

I shop at Granlund's in Campbell River, and it is not organized either, but a shop! Karl knows his stuff, and usually has great stock.

Pyrodex... is corrosive, but if you clean it right away it should be no problem.


If you can get some GOEX FFFg. You won't regret it!

 

[PsyEx]

Thanks Olof, I will be sure to pick some up when I have the opportunity. I will buy a bunch as I never dreamed it would be so hard to get. There is a place in Canada that sells goes online but the only sell it 25lbs at a time. I seriously don' need that much hehe. Especially 1lbs equals 7000 grains which for me at a max charge of 25grains gives me roughly 280 shots, 70 full revolver cylinders, at 15 min per reload that is 17.5 hrs of reloading. I am thinking the way I shoot 2lbs would be roughly my yearly usage. Maybe less, lol. Wow too early for that much math.

 

[10x]

Thanks for all the replies. Been looking around Edmonton here and all I could get was pyrodex p. I was warned about it being very hydroscopic and how to wash out my revolver. Chip at wholesale sports was quite knowledgable and helpful. I did check out Lock and Load felt like I was walking into my father in laws shed. Stuff everywhere, 3guys chatting over the counter. One guy, the owner I think, helped me but had nothing I needed. He does sell Goex and was supposed to get some in this week but as he said weeks over and it's not here. I will phone next time. Seemed disorganized. I have heard good things about this place but I have to say first impressions are everything, and I was none to impressed with Lock and Load, maybe it was an off day. I laughed when I realized I had asked about a patched ball, I had just been reading about flinter pistols that is where that came from. I do not have a BP cartridge gun... Yet. This is a whole new exciting genre for me, soon. The Father in law has a really nice Mauser that uses BP nice gun kicks like a mule.

In defense of Lock 'n Load, they are suffering at the hands of federal government employees. That store was a real gun store a year ago - with inventory. Now he is making ends meet.

 

[PsyEx]

I hear ya 10x, was not really trying to slam L&L just giving my first impression of the place having never been there. I don't know the owner. Honestly I feel for the independent gun shops, with Wholesale sports, and now Cabela's life is just going to get harder. Unless that is Cabela's doesn't have any inventory like WS. For a big store WS never has anything. However L&L should make it a priority to clean that place up, organize, and make it user friendly. I had no idea where anything was or what the price was, that is two things that as a consumer you must know. The owner migh be quite compitant but when I see that place it looks like someone that just doesn't care anymore. I really can't say that I will be running out to purchase anything there. P&D and Milarm have very organized stores, they set the bar I would say in Edmonton for non-chain or Big Box stores. The federal government has nothing to do with the way the store is organized or presents itself. Just in the way security, and business is conducted. That place would be a nightmare for any federal inspector. Lets be honest, if any news agency went to L&L and took footage of that place, the average person that knows nothing about guns and maybe a lot that do would be apaulled. I seriously don't like slaming a gun business owners store because they are a dying breed in this country but I gotta call a spade a spade.

 

[ruger22]

Thanks Olof, I will be sure to pick some up when I have the opportunity. I will buy a bunch as I never dreamed it would be so hard to get. There is a place in Canada that sells goes online but the only sell it 25lbs at a time. I seriously don' need that much hehe.

Try networking at a SASS or BP shoot.
Worked for me.
Guys sell just for cost to share the large order.
1 gallon new gas cans are good containers.
BP shooters are the most interesting of the firearms community...

I would take some FF Goex...

 

[jethunter]

I hear ya 10x, was not really trying to slam L&L just giving my first impression of the place having never been there. I don't know the owner. Honestly I feel for the independent gun shops, with Wholesale sports, and now Cabela's life is just going to get harder. Unless that is Cabela's doesn't have any inventory like WS. For a big store WS never has anything. However L&L should make it a priority to clean that place up, organize, and make it user friendly. I had no idea where anything was or what the price was, that is two things that as a consumer you must know. The owner migh be quite compitant but when I see that place it looks like someone that just doesn't care anymore. I really can't say that I will be running out to purchase anything there. P&D and Milarm have very organized stores, they set the bar I would say in Edmonton for non-chain or Big Box stores. The federal government has nothing to do with the way the store is organized or presents itself. Just in the way security, and business is conducted. That place would be a nightmare for any federal inspector. Lets be honest, if any news agency went to L&L and took footage of that place, the average person that knows nothing about guns and maybe a lot that do would be apaulled. I seriously don't like slaming a gun business owners store because they are a dying breed in this country but I gotta call a spade a spade.

If you don't like them don't shop there. I've been there many times and i didn't see any illegal security issues. It's easy to make general accusations when you're hiding out on the internet when the other party can't defend themselves.

 

[mark289]

I have used Pyrodex P and Goex FFFG in my 1860(Reproduction), they both are fairly corrosive, I always clean up the pistol with soap and water within 24 hours and have never had a problem. My preference is the Goex as it smells great and makes lots of smoke. I use "wonder wads" before the round ball (.451) never had a cross fire. In a 1851 don't bother with the conical bullets because they don't quite fit with the cylinder in place, you would have to load the cylinder then put the pistol back together. I'm in agreement with remington caps over CCI (CCI seem to fall down and jam the hammer).

 

[PsyEx]

If you don't like them don't shop there. I've been there many times and i didn't see any illegal security issues. It's easy to make general accusations when you're hiding out on the internet when the other party can't defend themselves.

Last I checked I was not hiding on the internet and have always been forthcoming about who I am and what I do? I can be found most days in the Maintenance shop of 1 Military Police Regiment, if anyone wants to visit come to the desk and ask for Dean in Maintenance. I would be happy to meet any CGN'r, I am sure we have more in common then not. I have also been in my opinion very fair in everything I have said have no problem standing behind what I have written. If you want to take this personally by all means. However nowhere did I say anything illegal was going on. I was not making general accusations I was making specific comments about what I saw when I was there and improvement suggestions to increase sales, not take away from them. The owner may be a great guy I don't know him. Also, How do I know that the owner is not a member of CGN? I don't, this is a public forum. Nothing I wrote constitutes slander of any kind, and everything I have said can be verified by anyone that takes 10 min to visit the place. I basically said this is not the way I would run a business. I could understand your comments if I had attacked Lock and Load in some way or was unfair in my assessment of the place. I had been recommended Lock and Load on several occasions. I checked it out and I doubt I will be back. The other party is not only able to defend themselves they are invited to, but it is not necessary as no attack was made. However if there is a way to justify the state of Lock and Load from a marketing perspective please educate me.

 

[PsyEx]

Try networking at a SASS or BP shoot.
Worked for me.
Guys sell just for cost to share the large order.
1 gallon new gas cans are good containers.
BP shooters are the most interesting of the firearms community...

I would take some FF Goex...

Kewl, I have been looking for a BP Shooters club or Association is there one in Edmonton that you know of? I did a search but just got the Alberta sight and it is a one pager. It has phone numbers on it so I suppose I will stop being lazy and call someone. Thanks for the tip on the BP I will definitely check into it.