Personal Opinion. My journey to find the perfect 22. I ended with a 17HMR.

Canadiankeeper

Canadiankeeper

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Hopefully this will guide some and be entertaining to all!

I have taken a long trip to get where I am. It has taken about two years from when I started the "rim fire journey". I love the idea of a one gun does it all, we all know that does not exist how ever. So I settled with a one gun does it most hope. Eventually straying from that path, but I did come back to it. Over this two years I have owned a lot of rim fire rifles. My self as a shooter I have a slight affinity towards accurate guns (may be an understatement). This may have got a little out of control with my rim fire rifles. At the start of my journey I had already found my "niche" as a shooter. I liked accurate guns. I have owned pistols, black rifles, red rifles, shot guns. You name it I have tried it. I found my self being most fond of sitting at a bench or laying in the grass printing groups, or on a nice day having a walk through the woods for small game with my pooch. So naturally the cost of center fire rifles and long distance shooting was adding up and I was looking towards rim fire rifles. No I wouldn't be able to use my personal land with them and shoot out to just over 1000 yards. I could how ever get a lot of cheap practice in and hopefully with a practical rifle I can carry around.

I am only going to talk about the rifles that I was attempting this "two in one" journey with because if we included all the cooeys on a whim I picked up or old 22's because they are just cool we would be here all day!

So it begins, I find myself in possession of a Savage Mk2 bull barrel and a 3x9. WOW what a terrible stock, I think this stock must be the issue. This rifle is no to me. I dont want a clunky cheek rest strapped on my stock to get a sight picture. Plus this plastic is just terrible feeling in comparison to my center fire rifles. This feels like an air soft? Why did I buy this ? Oh yah, it was 200 bucks! Thats not to bad, I give it to a friend saying it is not for me. Given that it did group around 3/4 of an inch groups at 50. I cant seem to shake that feeling of it is the rifle not me. I can do better. There is NOTHING worse then pulling a trigger, then seeing a hole appear NOT behind your cross hairs...




I trade out the stock savage for a CZ 455 Varmint! Woohoo! Now I have that pesky 1/2 chal in the bag! Right?! Wrong... After playing with the rifle using a 3x9 and a 24x I cant seem to get this darn challenge... I do love the rifle though, it looks good. Feels good. Shoots slightly better then the savage. I still cant seem to think though. I can do better! How Can I shoot 1/2 moa at 100 but not 1/2 moa at 50 with rim fire ? It HAS to be the rifle!




Well out the door the 455 goes... Everyone online has said that the 452's are way better! You can adjust the barrel tension and play with the torque settings. That this rifle should be able to tag that pesky 1/2 challenge no problem! Not to mention it looks identical to the look and feel I fell in love with of the 455. So this has to be a shoe in right ? Take it to the range, sight it in... I'm still above the 1/2 challenge but I'm close! So close! Frankly I DONT HAVE TIME FOR THIS! Its hunting season! So in the woods I go ! I re affirmed my love for this rifle in the bush. It was accurate and put down tree rats with ease!


Amazing right?!

NO!

Haha, so season ends winter pass's and its warm enough to go shooting on the regular again! Ok I have all summer to play with this darn thing ! I ditch the 3x9 optic and put a 6-24 on it. I think ok, time to get serious it is going to look identical to my center fire precision rifles! On a budget of course though! So out goes the stock for a boyds stock and I pick up an adjustable cheek piece. Turning my CZ452 varmint from the hunting rifle I loved into a target style looking rifle that im in love with the looks of but unsure on how much I want to carry this around... Bah! Ill worry about that later! lets hit the range! Much to my disappointment I cant seem to nail 5 groups in a row under the 1/2 chal but I am SO close! Gah!



So I am stuck I feel that I have reached what is a "reasonable" budget for a 22. Keeping it under 1000 all in. Why cant I do this darn 1/2 challenge with a rifle that I like to hunt with also?! It is at this point I remember one of my very first rifles.. I do believe it was my 4th rifle (first being an SKS, then SVT40, with a Weatherby 300 win mag behind that.) My old Savage Mk2 thumb hole stock in 17HMR This rifle was a tac driver. In a foolish assumption that the ammo was to expensive and the belief that I wanted another center fire rifle thought I sold it. The 17HMR did do a number on some of the tree rats but it could shoot!




This cant be though! Im not allowed the 1/2 challenge with a 17hmr and there is no challenge for that rifle (or so I thought). Not to mention I don't have it any more and in an attempt to tell myself why I didn't want 17HMR I said it did to much damage to the game anyways. Im not going any buying another 17hmr. Nope, no way. Not happening. So feeling super lost, I'm not sure where to go. I don't have a rim fire rifle?! What kind of Canadian gun nut am I ? Oh but what is this?! A CZ455 CANADIAN! Well Ill be look at that. Why not?! It looks great! I bet it will shoot well if I play with it right ? So I walk out with that and a nice 4x12 optic. She shoots great! Again though I cant seem to get rid the one or two fly'rs ! This is infuriating! Not to mention I dont want to take this in the woods! Its to pretty!




This is where I get to the point where I say Ok my center fire rifles run 2g's to be accurate... Maybe my rim fire's can also. If I get a dedicated bench gun I will surely be able to do this right ?! Absolutely! NOT! lol
It is at this point that I learn how ammo sensitive ammo is in rim fire fire arms. Purchasing an Annie Tactical trainer, returning it and picking up a different model of tactical trainer... Now that is a read!!! I spent a lot of time, a lot of research and a lot of ammo on that ! Almost a full summer! Focused on ONE gun. Every weekend ONLY that gun went to the range.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...2-Anschutz-64R-Tactical-Trainer-64R-AND-64MPR

If you are so inclined. If not here is a picture of how it finally turned out !




So FINALLY I have done it! I got the 1/2 challenge... I definitely became a little consumed by it ! How cool is this thing though right?! I absolutely love it, one of the best fire arms if not the best one I have ever owned. This is now the end of summer, squirrel season is upon us... Crap... Im not dragging that monster into the bush! So not wanting to attempt to start the chase all over again with another bolt gun. I figure I will g for a modest hunting semi in 22lr.
In comes the Marlin 60... Well the first one I ordered had been used... A LOT... So a quick exchange with the store I got it from for an actual new one. Sight her in and out into the bush I go ! I dropped a good number of tree rats with it, but I had 2 get away! What? Nothing feels worse then that. Shooting an animal and not being able to recover it. They weren't long shots, I didn't miss... They straight up just ate a 22lr hit and dove into a hole to die... Well that is not ok.



Well what now? I still have plenty of season left and it is very warm. I have developed a slight disdain for the rifle as if it was the rifles fault. That this rifle was not adequate and its modest 1 inch group at 50 yards is filth and not deserving of being in this legendary squirrel slayers hands! So I again, remember that beautiful savage 17hmr... I have developed as a man now though! I cant have some base rifle. I want class in my hunting rifles, I want quality and awesome looks! Something you can fondle and awe over. Something I will for ever enjoy. I know savage has never failed me in center fire rifles. I know I HAD a 17 that was amazing.. So, heck.... Lets try it again!

So I pick up this beauty of a Savage. It is stainless in 17hmr with a nice laminate wood thumb hole stock as I need a high cheek rest. I plan on spending a fair amount of time looking through this optic and I want it to look good also. Classy but deadly ! Like a Woman in a James bond movie! So naturally, a Leupold now sits atop my favorite rifle with such a small gap between the barrel and front bell you cant get the covers on! Perfect for a fast flat shooting round such as the 17HMR... Yes I said it, favorite. How can it be though? How has this all in 800 dollar rifle passed my cherished target annie? Maybe because when I went to sight it in with a 3x9 optic it matched the annie! this rifle is printing one ragged hole at 50 yards! Amazing! Lets stretch out to 100! under 3/4 inch groups at 100?! How can this be!? That smokes my annie... The annie has so many advantages also! What is happening?



Well after a very long, frustrating but fun journey. The Annie has been sold. The old 22LR Cartridge 1800's has given way to the modern cartridge of the 17HMR designed in 2004 (I think). The 17 was able to prove superior to the 22lr. The ammo cost of match grade ammo for the 22lr was on par with the cost of the 17hmr. So I could no longer fool myself. Not to mention there isnt any real MATCH ammo for the 17 yet. Not to mention I needed a rig costing over 2g's only to fall short compared to the $800 dollar 17 hmr rig. I could not carry the 22lr Annie into the woods, I could the 17HMR...

I had found it, the accurate rim fire for bench groups and hunting. At last. For me at least, im sure I will get a lot of flak about this. Just remember when you show me your 22lr that can put down .300 groups at 50 yards. You dont carry it in the woods, nor does it preform as well at 100!

cou:


CanadianKeeper
 
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It's good to hear that after your long and sometimes frustrating journey you are finally satisfied. Any 17hmr that consistently shoots sub-.750 inch groups at 100 yards should be celebrated. Here's hoping you continue to find ammo as consistent as the rifle.
 
No problem guys, if anyone is salty let me add some to the wound. I didn't like the GEN1 RPR I would consider trying a gen 2

Im still playing with the idea of doing a tricked out 10/22, the biggest thing stopping me is cleaning semi's is meh. Bolt guns are easy, rods all hang on the wall. Take the one off I need, blast a couple patches through call it a day. (access from the bolt)
 
Seems to me you are trying to combine rimfire and centerfire attributes. A rimfire is a rimfire and a centerfire is a centerfire... as short as the .22 LR falls from your HMR, your HMR falls from the .17/.20/.22 cal centerfire cartridges... I can load my .20's and and .22's for less cost than HMR ammo is selling for these days and my smallbore centerfire cartridges are good to 300+ yards and still shoot sub-1/2" groups at 100 yards. Four decades of squirrel and small game hunting has proven to me that the .22 LR reigns supreme as an all-around choice... as far as cartridge attributes go, the .17 HM2 is probably the best choice for squirrels, unfortunately ammo availability and platform choices are limited... I have owned and shot and custom built dozens of each, and keep arriving back at these same conclusions.

I am glad you are happy, but the fact remains that every shooter "should" own a .22 LR, whereas nobody needs to own an HMR, it is in a niche that is better covered by smallbore centerfire rifles.

JMO...
 
Its all good! I love hearing everyone OP.

I still am considering a 10/22 platform.

That 17HM2 looks awesome. Never seen any of its ammo on the shelf's or a rifle chambered in it. I knew of its existence but had no real concept of what it was.
I agree that Small bore CF cartridges are good for farther. I worry about bothering some of the land owners though. A lot of them want to know what im using. Not many know much about firearms or are super friendly to the unknown. So saying I use a light load in a 223/22-250 ect for tree rats makes them uncomfortable. Not to mention what a 223 will do to a poor tree rat. I have taken a few wood chucks with it though.
I dont find my self shooting over 125 at any small game very often. I also dont find my self shooting under 50 yards often either. Why I think I gravitated towards the 17 for hunting over the 22lr.
I feel that the 22lr is a good round for small game, but the 17hmr is a good round for small game at a distance and i feel a bit better taking a shot at a fox or chuck with it.
I do think 17hmr is a niche round but hey. I like it ! lol

I sold my 223 to a buddy up north and sold my 22lr. So as for hunting rifles I now primarily use my 17HMR for basically everything from fox down. For yotes I pull out my 6.5 CM lol... Over kill but its what I have and it works within ontario hunting regs. My main hunting buddies one uses a 22lr for tree rats the other a 22WMR
 
I have 2 452s in 22lr and one in 17hmr. the 17 may be more accurate but the noise difference has me reaching for the 22lr every time. if I wanted to make some noise or reach out further I would grab the 204 or 22-250 and put a real pop in the gophers
 
The 17 mach 2 is perfect for what you want. Just as accurate as the hmr but easier on edible game. I got slightly better penetration with it over the hmr as well
It's quieter then the hmr as well
It sucks the market dropped it pretty bad.
It's the perfect tree rat and crow gun
I've taken 3 coyotes with mine. All targets of opportunity. All flattened. Ammo used to be $8.99 when I bought mine. Now it's around $12-16 when it does surface
My 22 mag comes out for ditch hunting coyotes but the lil mach2 is what I use for fox and small game unless I want to be very quiet then I bring a 22
 
Great write-up, and nice photos CK. Thanks for posting! I think I'd be inclined to agree with most of what Hoytcannon said about looking for CF results from factory-loaded rimfire ammo. That in and of itself is problematic, but I can relate to hitting the go button (while on a SUPER solid rest) and seeing the POI being...well...at a different point. lol Not good. HMR is the king of of the rimfires where accuracy and a bit of distance is concerned, I don't think anyone here with allot of experience would really argue that. I certainly wouldn't, having owned 5 HMRs and more 22s than I can remember.

One of my HMRs (CZ452 Varmint) shot the smallest group I have maybe ever achieved, smaller than 3/8" @ 100 meters (109 yards) using Hornady 20gr HPs. I foolishly sold that rifle, and I can honestly say it's the only rifle I've ever sold that I regret to this day. At the time, I was fixated on the 17gr BTs and their explosive effect on varmints and I saw the rifle's love of the HPs as a handicap. Live and learn.

Your write-up on the Tactical Trainer, and some of the advice you offered me were instrumental in my decision to buy one with a 64 MP R action, and I'm still very much smitten with that rifle. It gets great results like yours did, especially with caviar-grade ammo. CCI SV reliably shoots under 3/4" @ 50 yards (usually MUCH better) so that's the "plinking" ammo for me. It's maybe too fine a rifle to drag out to AB for gophers...but unless I get over that and add something OTHER than paper-punching to it's dance card, it may not be a rifle I keep forever. For now, it's so fun/accurate to shoot from a bench that it's hard to wipe the smile off my face. I can sure understand why it's not an ideal squirrel gun for lugging through the bush, but maybe slightly more unruly than your Savage with that stock. That exact rifle (only blued) WAS the first 17HMR I bought, and while that stock worked for me while on a bench, I found it very uncomfortable to shoot prone. I couldn't quite warm to it, but clearly you have, so I'm happy for you that you've found the "perfect" gun for your needs! :)

17M2~I've had a couple, and as much as I DEARLY wanted to love that little .17, I found it wasn't overly effective when any wind was present...which seemed to be most of the time when I had it out. Ammo kept getting harder to find and more expensive, and since I hate rationing ammo with what little time I have to shoot...the rifle(s) became dust collectors. I still dig the idea of having a 17 I might love one day, so I recently bought a new CZ 527 in 17 Hornet. I've yet to shoot it, but will soon. I like the idea of being to have a reload-able 17 that isn't a barrel burner.

So yeah...I think your post might be very interesting to people looking at their first rimfire rifle purchase, maybe the "next" one as well. I know my own relationships with my guns evolve if a new purpose arises...such as gopher shooting. Thought I had all the rimfires I needed until I got into that. :)
 
How are you guys reloading 204’s and 223’s for less than the cost of 17 hmr? Last time I reloaded for a 204 I had it was like 60+ cents a shot I believe. Fill me in here as I would like to reload for my 223 if I can actually reload cheaper per shot than a 17 rim fire
 
Mike112288 said:
How are you guys reloading 204’s and 223’s for less than the cost of 17 hmr? Last time I reloaded for a 204 I had it was like 60+ cents a shot I believe. Fill me in here as I would like to reload for my 223 if I can actually reload cheaper per shot than a 17 rim fire
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Always wondered that myself. :) When I buy HMR on sale, it's about $0.39 a shot. When it's up around $20 a box, that's still only $0.46 a shot. I would have to think to get prices down in that arena, you have to buy powder 8lbs at a time, bullets 500 at a time, maybe cheaper primers...? I shoot BR4 primers (not the cheapest) and buy my powder 1lb. at a time, bullets in boxes of 100, etc. My bullet/primer/powder costs exceed that HMR pricing by a bit, and that's leaving brass out of the equation. I'm sure it's possible to get around the same pricing, maybe better...but I never have. Not really trying to either, as I load .223 for varmint hunting and maybe shoot about 50-100 rounds a year in that role.
 
Well I need to look into that some more. I miss my cooper 17 hmr. Sold it thinking it was stupid how expensive those tiny rounds were. If I did it over I’d buy a cz 17 hmr
 
CK, I found your thread both Interesting, and Informative. The pictures were also a nice touch.
I use my .22lr CZ 452 Varmint for paper punching, and I enjoy it immensely. The Yodave kit gives me a safe 11oz trigger pull.:) I had to have a semi- auto as well, so I bought a Ruger Deluxe Sporter.
I installed a KIDD heavy barrel, and trigger kit for a 1.75# pull. It's accuracy and dependability put a smile on my face every time. I am very interested, in the 50 yard challenge, but have not tried it yet.
I have a lot of love for the Anschutz 1710 HB, but it will have to wait for now, Then there's the Kriss Defiance DMK-22C LVOA AR...
 
Glad some are enjoyin!

Yah over all a "run of the mill" savage dressed up in stainless and a nice stock is matching a top end rifle like an annie.

The cartridge is just in my opinion, a bit better. Its not knocking the 22lr we all know an love. Its just a modern rifle so naturally it will have a bit of an advantage..

I still think everyone needs a 22lr and that they are awesome for new shooters. I think the 17HMR was designed specifically for me and people like me. Someone who doesn't mind paying a little more (its really not much at all) to have a bit better performance. It looks good on paper, and wacks all critters that are coyote size or smaller. It is my "im a serious small game hunter, and a part time target shooter but too cheap to buy multiple guns" rifle.

17HMR and the 22lr are like the 6.5 CM and the 308... the new cartridge has an advantage. It is slightly better. Does the old one work? Absolutely, is the new one better... A bit.

cou:
 
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Glad you've settled on something that pleases you overall. The .17 HMR cartridge has a lot of potential for accuracy, it really is a shame that it isn't made to "match" standards, 'cause 300 fps velocity spreads are gunna cause you problems at some point. If they could get it down to 50 fps ES, like "match" .22 LR, oh boy would it smoke! Eley, in the not so distant past made some .17 HM2 for a short while. I've got a CZ 455 Full Stock in .17 HMR, not as accurate as your Savage but I'd rely on it to shoot 1"-1.5" groups at 100 and that's plenty accurate for any hunting purpose I can think of. End of the day, doesn't matter what the caliber is, it is how well the rifle/barrel is made :rolleyes: Couple guys on RFC can't get their CZ .17 HMR's shooting better than an inch at 50 yards.

Just an insight from the RFC 100 yard challenge I've been shooting for the past year, there have been less than a handful of .17 HMRs shooting in it that are competitive for accuracy, .22 LRs dominate. Only a couple shining gem .17's that are up there with the top .22's, and it's ammo quality that keeps them down. I've shot a fair bit of .17 this year, and if you thought .22 LR was fussy, heh, wait till yer shooting different lots/types of .17 ;)

I have the feeling a properly built/tuned .22 will still beat a .17 at 100 yards on average, at least until .17 ammo gets better. The only trouble with .22 is what it takes to truly make it an accurate cartridge. To sum up everything I've learned about it during my own journey, don't expect much from a factory rifle, as you know even an Anschütz rifle can sometimes be "meh". If you want super accuracy, it's semi-full custom or bust, anything less is just a gamble. Even the custom world isn't a sure thing, sometimes barrels are duds, but even with a great barrel the smith still has to do his job properly or he can ruin it (like say crowning it where the chamber should go and vice versa, the best barrels are taper lapped and the tightest spot had better be the muzzle). Think any factory is slugging their barrels and marking exactly where to cut and crown them? Would be pretty hard to produce the contours they offer at the specified length if they did that, so it's random chance if this factor is done right on any factory rifle. Alright... the rabbit hole can get pretty deep so I'll stop there. Good luck shootin' next season, and watch out for my .22 project :)
 
RabidM4U5 said:
Glad you've settled on something that pleases you overall. The .17 HMR cartridge has a lot of potential for accuracy, it really is a shame that it isn't made to "match" standards, 'cause 300 fps velocity spreads are gunna cause you problems at some point. If they could get it down to 50 fps ES, like "match" .22 LR, oh boy would it smoke! Eley, in the not so distant past made some .17 HM2 for a short while. I've got a CZ 455 Full Stock in .17 HMR, not as accurate as your Savage but I'd rely on it to shoot 1"-1.5" groups at 100 and that's plenty accurate for any hunting purpose I can think of. End of the day, doesn't matter what the caliber is, it is how well the rifle/barrel is made :rolleyes: Couple guys on RFC can't get their CZ .17 HMR's shooting better than an inch at 50 yards.

Just an insight from the RFC 100 yard challenge I've been shooting for the past year, there have been less than a handful of .17 HMRs shooting in it that are competitive for accuracy, .22 LRs dominate. Only a couple shining gem .17's that are up there with the top .22's, and it's ammo quality that keeps them down. I've shot a fair bit of .17 this year, and if you thought .22 LR was fussy, heh, wait till yer shooting different lots/types of .17 ;)

I have the feeling a properly built/tuned .22 will still beat a .17 at 100 yards on average, at least until .17 ammo gets better. The only trouble with .22 is what it takes to truly make it an accurate cartridge. To sum up everything I've learned about it during my own journey, don't expect much from a factory rifle, as you know even an Anschütz rifle can sometimes be "meh". If you want super accuracy, it's semi-full custom or bust, anything less is just a gamble. Even the custom world isn't a sure thing, sometimes barrels are duds, but even with a great barrel the smith still has to do his job properly or he can ruin it (like say crowning it where the chamber should go and vice versa, the best barrels are taper lapped and the tightest spot had better be the muzzle). Think any factory is slugging their barrels and marking exactly where to cut and crown them? Would be pretty hard to produce the contours they offer at the specified length if they did that, so it's random chance if this factor is done right on any factory rifle. Alright... the rabbit hole can get pretty deep so I'll stop there. Good luck shootin' next season, and watch out for my .22 project :)
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That CZ thing would BURN ME UP lol god Id lose my mind.

You pretty much nailed it on the head. I am still tinkering with the idea of a FULL custom to be ready for next summer. I have to see what happens between now and then. May be moving west ! lol
 
Canadiankeeper said:
That CZ thing would BURN ME UP lol god Id lose my mind.

You pretty much nailed it on the head. I am still tinkering with the idea of a FULL custom to be ready for next summer. I have to see what happens between now and then. May be moving west ! lol
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Now...just WHAT are you talking about CK? :) There is arguably no better place TO own a laser of a 17HMR~SO many targets! :)
 
My do-it-all rimfire is a 17 HMR as well. I went through dozens of rimfires (even a pair of 17 M2's) before finding "the one", so I know the struggle. I don't even own a single 22lr anymore, as embarrassed as I am to admit it!
 
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