phase inverters ? setting up my shop
- Thread starter 45ACPKING
- Start date
your retire from pro Gunsmithing and then by a Mill?
LOL
Not exactly
The mill was owned and operated by a family business that closed when the ol man retired. The machine was kept in storage far a few years but "had" to be moved. And this is where fortune smiles on folks with room in their shop and access to a crane truck for cheap
We have had the machine for about a year now but I am only now finding the time to deal with it.
I have many uses for a mill outside of gunsmithing. Who knows, I got a lot of years left (touch wood), I may decide to work again in the future, but for now, smithin for $$$ is just somethin I need a break from.
Because you will probably be into problems with feeds and pumps the simplest way is a rotary and a step up transformer. I bought the transformer used. It's the same one that is used to step down in an industrial building to supply low voltage for office etc. I think I paid about $100 for mine used. All in about $1000. There are probably a lot of relays etc in the back of that mill and it will be real easy to just leave it as is. I had a TOZ mill that came to Canada and was wired here to be CSA. I know enough about wiring to be dangerous but I didn't want to get into the mill. The other question is do you want to fix guns or get into the machine fix up business? It's often smarter to buy new than fool around fixing old stuff and spending your time "saving money".
My only approach to this mill is a project and a hobby that so far has essentially cost me nothing.
I'm a retired riflesmith (M1A/M14) and custom stock maker.
In my spare time, I continue to do these things as a hobby.
Having a mill for prototyping and making it availlable my machinist friend on a rental use plan is what I'm after.
It's essentially a free mill, with a schwack of tooling/vices ect. What it costs to get it going will be more than worth it to me.
Hi 45, I guess YMMV depending on what you need. I bought a new industrial lathe locally after a few months look for a used one. None available worth the effort to do quality work. It's already paid for after a year so I don't care if it sits for weeks idle. I am still trying to decide if I should turn my cnc router out for a cnc mill but I am tight on space.
Space! Ayeee! I need ANY space right now. Driving me half stir crazy, with plots and plans for projects that need a big floor and a roof, Heat in winter would be pretty nice too! Gotta make do with the indoor small machines.
This mill could be sweetheart easy if it is, say, a 220v 3Ph mill, or it could be miserable and need a bunch of stuff replaced to run on local power. It's not like it has a whole mess of interconnects and safeties that tie in power feeds to all three axiis, a scenario we had at work which was fairly enlightening as to the limitations of capability of the electricians and millwrights that were involved in letting the smoke out of the remainder of the relays and wires that were involved. All pretty much starting from a linkage going out of adjustment due to a loose lock nut.
That was sad. Took 3 or 4 years and a purchased POS Chinese mill that was a wiring frikken nightmare, till we found a used match for the old one. Life was much better when that mill left the shop!
Cheers
Trev
Isn't is possible to run a 3ph machine from another 3ph machine, as long as there are two machines in the shop that are 3ph, from a single phase wired shop? Can't you use the one not in use as the idler for the machine in use? The only drawback is you can't run both simultaneously. I saw this done at a local garage here a few years back.
I have no idea how its wired though.
I have no idea how its wired though.
Yeah, you end up essentially using the first as a RPC for the ones further down the line. Kinda a gyppo way to run, OK, but not ideal.
You see the sub-forum on this stuff over on the practicalmachinist site? Lots of good info there. More available in the files at metalworking.com.
It's a little like plumbing, except it leaks different, eh? Sometimes you run two hot lines, sometimes three. Then you get to try to keep straight on why a ground and a neutral are not the same thing...
Cheers
Trev
So I'm told it runs on a 240V 3 phase set up but the feeds and coolant is internally stepped down to 110V thru a box built into the mill.
Does that make sense LOL
I see myself hiring a real good electrician very soon as I'm clearly out of my skill set here
Still waitin on my buddy to send me the info off the motors and such
Does that make sense LOL
I see myself hiring a real good electrician very soon as I'm clearly out of my skill set here
Still waitin on my buddy to send me the info off the motors and such
Google (phase perfect) used one to run an elevator in a single phase building and if you have a 240 volt input it gives you 240v 3phase
If you need 208 you would have to transform your single phase input. It will cost more than a vfd but you can run you machine unmodified. Also you can buy direct from that company.
If you need 208 you would have to transform your single phase input. It will cost more than a vfd but you can run you machine unmodified. Also you can buy direct from that company.
Gentlemen, I have been doing this for a living for the past 40 years, so let me chime in if you will.
a) you can use any VFD to convert from single phase to 3 phase (some caveats on this) but in the HPs were talking here it applies.
b) you may run more than one motor from a VFD as long as the VFD is rated for the total HP
c) rotary phase converters are old technology and do not give you a true 120deg phase angle split, therefore reducing not only start torque but run torque as well
d) no VFD will change input voltage to output voltage, impossible. Units with voltage change input/output have built in transformers which you are paying approx 3X for. Never transform the input on a VFD being used in a single to 3 phase application, you must always transform the output 3 ph voltage
e) VFDs will run any HP up to it's max HP rating or any combination of motors up to it's max HP rating and give true 3 phase with a perfect 120 deg phase angle split.
f) VFDs all have the capability to be wired as your primary control circuit, ie; stop/start/forward/reverse/jog etc. You just have to rethink your control circuit and treat the VFD as the brain and wire the controls accordingly.
g) VFDs draw no current when no load is applied unlike rotary phase converters which draw current continuously all day long if run all day. At current power costs the VFD can pay for it's self in less than a year depending on usage. (full time machine shop)
h) VFDs allow an amazing variety of options as well as phase conversion, speed control, ramp up and down, braking, soft start, forward/reverse to name a few, rotary not one.
I) If you decide you absolutely must have a rotary phase converter contact Marcel @ Electram in Edmonton, he's been building them for years for the Can market.
My company has just finished installing a single VFD to run 3 separate 200 HP motors that need to run perfectly in phase and speed sync. This is the 5th application we have installed with multiple motors being run from a single VFD with a combined 300 HP and more, up to 900 HP. The VFD can be wired on board to create most control situations you could need or if more controls are required it can be driven by a PLC.
Like I said gentlemen this is what I do for a living, and I'm good at.
OP if you want to use a VFD, PM me and I'll get you a good one at my cost, not the Chinese crap that is sold on the internet. We use Vacon, Baldor, Leeson, ABB and occasionally Toshiba, all are top quality drives with warranty and service.
a) you can use any VFD to convert from single phase to 3 phase (some caveats on this) but in the HPs were talking here it applies.
b) you may run more than one motor from a VFD as long as the VFD is rated for the total HP
c) rotary phase converters are old technology and do not give you a true 120deg phase angle split, therefore reducing not only start torque but run torque as well
d) no VFD will change input voltage to output voltage, impossible. Units with voltage change input/output have built in transformers which you are paying approx 3X for. Never transform the input on a VFD being used in a single to 3 phase application, you must always transform the output 3 ph voltage
e) VFDs will run any HP up to it's max HP rating or any combination of motors up to it's max HP rating and give true 3 phase with a perfect 120 deg phase angle split.
f) VFDs all have the capability to be wired as your primary control circuit, ie; stop/start/forward/reverse/jog etc. You just have to rethink your control circuit and treat the VFD as the brain and wire the controls accordingly.
g) VFDs draw no current when no load is applied unlike rotary phase converters which draw current continuously all day long if run all day. At current power costs the VFD can pay for it's self in less than a year depending on usage. (full time machine shop)
h) VFDs allow an amazing variety of options as well as phase conversion, speed control, ramp up and down, braking, soft start, forward/reverse to name a few, rotary not one.
I) If you decide you absolutely must have a rotary phase converter contact Marcel @ Electram in Edmonton, he's been building them for years for the Can market.
My company has just finished installing a single VFD to run 3 separate 200 HP motors that need to run perfectly in phase and speed sync. This is the 5th application we have installed with multiple motors being run from a single VFD with a combined 300 HP and more, up to 900 HP. The VFD can be wired on board to create most control situations you could need or if more controls are required it can be driven by a PLC.
Like I said gentlemen this is what I do for a living, and I'm good at.
OP if you want to use a VFD, PM me and I'll get you a good one at my cost, not the Chinese crap that is sold on the internet. We use Vacon, Baldor, Leeson, ABB and occasionally Toshiba, all are top quality drives with warranty and service.
