*pics up* An old soldier has come home (any CDN WW2 uniform experts ?)

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RobSmith

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I went to my cousin's funeral stateside this morning and was given my great uncle Roland Bourdon's uniform from WW2. I knew the uniform existed and my cousin wanted me to have it but she never thought of bringing it to any family reunions, since she is now dying of lung cancer she wanted to make sure that her father's uniform would stay in the family. She apparently has some personal belongings from him that she also wants me to have, but didn't bring those this time. I know nothing about those things, or the man who wore it, and would like to find out as much as I can.

Now for the details : The shirt and trousers are pretty much standard, nothing special about them. Headgear is a beret, rather than a sidecap, the cap badge has a single cannon on carriage on it pointing left, it is inscribed "ubique" on top and then "quo fas et gloria d u c u n t" on the bottom it has 2 holes on the side (aeration?) and a brown string in the back (size adjusment ?).

The tunic has a number of badges and ribbons on it, I will attempt to describe them as best I can. Both shoulder blade (I think that's what these things are called) have a black ribbon on the with "17 rca" written in red. The right sleeve has "canada" in whitish on top, a puprle cloth rectangle right below it and has a patch with 4 inverted red V's at the bottom near the cuff.

There is a single row of 4 ribbons above the left breast pockets, from left to right they are ribbon 1 colored green, red, blue, red green, that one has a single golden maple leaf device pinned in the middle. Ribbon 2 is blue, white, red, white, blue. Ribbon 3 is red, white, green, white, red. ribbon 4 is light blue, red, dark blue.The left sleeve has the same canada and puple rectangle as the right sleeve.

So where do I start to figure out where my late uncle went thru and what he might have been involved in ?

Mods, feel free to move this to off topics if you feel this is inappropriate for milsurp, since this is not firearm-related.

Thanks for any help.
 
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The gentleman served with the 17th Field Regiment of the Royal Canadian Artillery.

You can find info here: http://members.tripod.com/~nigelef/cdnregt.htm

They originated in Saskatoon as a militia regiment/battery and their overseas history (from that web link) would appear to be UK 1941-3 - 5 Cdn Armd Div
Italy 1943-4 - 5 Cdn Armd Div NW Europe 1945 - 5 Cdn Armd Div

Others here can probably tell you more about the decorations, div. patch etc. than I can.

The hat badge is virtually identical to that worn by the Royal Artillery of the British Army. The Latin translates to "where right and glory lead"

There's an old joke in the services about the RCA badge : "The gun the you can't shoot, the wheel you can't turn, d u c unt you can't ...."

In commonwealth armies where British Army traditions are followed, the Artillery are considered the "senior" arm and take precedence on the right in a brigade or higher formation parade.
 
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I was finally able to get hold of a digital camera and take a few pics, yes, I know, don't quit your day job to become a photographer. :p

Overall view with beret.
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Closeup of the decorations
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back view/right shoulder closeup

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Hope this helps.
 
Great pic's, I think, underline THINK, I may be able to identify some of the ribbions, from the book "The Canadian Honour System."

I think that The first ribbon, from the inside going out, is the 1939-45 Star, (dark blue-red-light blue). Next one, no idea(red-white-green-white-red); 3rd one France and Germany Star (blue-white-red-white-blue); last one Canadian Volunteer Service Medal with Clasp.(gree-orange-blue-orange-green, with rosette)

I stress, that I am not any sort of expert in these matters and hope that someone with greater knowledge can assist you.
 
Could you look up in your book if the unidentified one is some sort of Italy campaign decoration ? The colors would make sense, and oral history in the family appear to indicate that he spent some time at Monte Cassino. As the story goes he spent his time driving US officers around, which no doubt got embellished with the years and as people passed on to an unidentified US General (I doubt that part, but this was told to me by his daughter who gave me the uniform).


I found an original story about ol' Roland that was sent to me by one of my father's now deceased cousins from some years ago, and I quote : "I don't think you are aware that Our Uncle Prosper and Uncle Roland, your Grandmother Lucienne's brothers were at Casino in Italy and They were at Remagen, Germany, too. Boy, that Uncle Roland was a wild man. He was a driver for a Lieutenant at Casino and one incident that he told me about I will never forget. The Lieutenant told him to go down a particular road and it had rained alot and they got stuck in the mud. I may not have the story exactly correct but the basic incident is still the same. The lieutenant told Uncle Roland to get out and push the Jeep. Uncle Roland told him that since Uncle Roland is the driver the Lieutenant needed to get out and push. He told me the Lieutenant backed down when they went head to head and Uncle Roland told the Lieutenant that he might go to jail but the Lieutenant was going to the hospital.The Lieutenant got out and pushed the jeep. Those were his exact words. I laughed to hear him ..."

The email goes on for awhile but it gives you an idea of the guy I'm trying to research. :D


Gibbs505 said:
Great pic's, I think, underline THINK, I may be able to identify some of the ribbions, from the book "The Canadian Honour System."

I think that The first ribbon, from the inside going out, is the 1939-45 Star, (dark blue-red-light blue). Next one, no idea(red-white-green-white-red); 3rd one France and Germany Star (blue-white-red-white-blue); last one Canadian Volunteer Service Medal with Clasp.(gree-orange-blue-orange-green, with rosette)

I stress, that I am not any sort of expert in these matters and hope that someone with greater knowledge can assist you.
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Sorry, the book I have gives only the more modern awards and few details of older decorations. I would suggest a web search for thes decorations as your next step. I wish that I could help more.

Love the story about driving!!
 
Going left to right;
1) 1939 - 1945 Star - awarded for 6 months active operation (Army/Navy), 2 months if AirForce either in Europe or Pacfic.
2)The Star of Italy - one day of operational service 1943 - 1945 in Sicily or Italy.
3) The France and Germany Star - one day of service in France, Belgiun, Holland or Germany 1944 - 1945.
4) Canadian Volunteer Service Medal - 540 days of voluntary Service 1939 - 1947. The Maple Leaf denotes 60 days of service outside Canada.

The ribbons were worn on the daily uniform whereas the medals were for special occassions. Do you have his medals as well?

Research came from my Dad....WWII vet.....and Veterans Affairs website.

Sounds like your stories bear out, Good luck in your research.
 
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rgg_7 said:
The ribbons were worn on the daily uniform whereas the medals were for special occassions. Do you have his medals as well?

Research came from my Dad....WWII vet.....and Vetrans Affairs website.

Sounds like your stories bear out, Good luck in your research.
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Thanks for the wishes. I don't have the medals, only the ribbons. My cousin will try to forward me some other items which she wants me to have. I am unsure of what they are at this time however, she is dying of lung cancer and is childless, so I have a feeling that I may receive several items related to Roland in the not so distant future. Among them (confirmed) would be one or more photo albums as well as his regimental album, I fear that his medals were lost to time so I will have to keep my eyes open for replacements (unless the originals can somehow be located). Let just say I'm known as the unofficial family archivist, stuff like that usually finds its way to me one way or another.

Next will be trying to get copies of whatever records about him and his unit that still exist in Ottawa unsealed, but I have no idea how to begin that process.
 
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You can get his service record from Ottawa....contact Veterans Affairs....my brother has successfully researched some of my Dad's brothers. You can do a google to get the site and it explains the process.

Your relative may still have your Uncle's medals....these metals are not named unless he was in the Merchant Marines or RCMP. These were noted on his service record and held in high esteem....generally kept by a family member. If they fail to surface, you often see them come up on eBay, collector advertisements and at gun shows....at least you can replace them unlike WWI metals or Specials.
 
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Actually, WWII Canadian medals were not marked with the recipient's name. WWI medals were as a standard practice, and this may be what you are thinking about. The good thing about this is that you can pick up replacements and no one will no any different. I will take a root through my spares piles, because I may have a couple that you need. Keep in mind, however, while most of the British and Canadian medals of WWII were identical, Britain used nickel while Canada used silver. If you see them side by side, the British medals tend to have more of a grey look while the Canadian medals are often tarnished with black. This puts a slightly higher value on the proper Canadian pieces.
 
Gibbs505 said:
I am glad that you have the info you need. Good luck with your further research!
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I doubt you can possibly understand how much this stuff means to me, this is my BLOOD man. I'll do whatever it takes to keep ol' Roland's name and legacy alive. Hopefully I'll find out something significant before his daughter Connie (whom passed the uniform to me and who'se days are counted thanks to lung cancer) passes on and I can reassure her that she can go in peace, and she, or her father will NOT be forgotten!
 
Rob, you can find the medals quite often at the guns shows, or Jean has them for sale too. His handle here is JP, I think he has a link to his shop here too. P&S mitiaria.
Not the origonals I know, but the next best thing.

I hope to get Grampa's tunic all back in order with his medals back in place too. Someone washed it tho, it would now fit a twelve year old. :-(

Best wishes in your search!

Noel
 
There is a chance that you can request replacement medals from the government. There are programs to issue replacements under certain circumstances. As a direct relative and the designated keeper of the history, you might qualify. www.gg.ca is the Governor General's site and poke around for the Chancellry office.
 
RobSmith said:
I doubt you can possibly understand how much this stuff means to me, this is my BLOOD man. I'll do whatever it takes to keep ol' Roland's name and legacy alive. Hopefully I'll find out something significant before his daughter Connie (whom passed the uniform to me and who'se days are counted thanks to lung cancer) passes on and I can reassure her that she can go in peace, and she, or her father will NOT be forgotten!
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Belive me, I understand. Here is my Dad's grave.
Picture005.jpg


Here is my Mum and myself at dads grave.
Picture008.jpg
 
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