Pietta Colt SAA won't #### after firing.

viking555

viking555

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My Pietta SAA (1873 reproduction) in .357 magnum will not #### after firing the first round and I'm left with a loaded revolver that will not operate or unload. I had to pull the cylinder pin, remove the cylinder to unload it and leave the firing line.
I know I will have to get a gunsmith to repair it, but I am asking if anyone knows what I did wrong to cause this in a fairly new gun with less than a box of ammo fired through it?
I bought this gun new from Marstar years ago and just started taking it to the range.

Recoil seems to cause this because it works fine dry firing. It has no transfer bar and still has the firing pin like the originals.

Any Colt SAA experts out there?
 
Did you check the other rounds after you got them out? Maybe recoil from the first shot is pulling bullets out of the cases tying up the cylinder so it won't rotate. They would be sticking out of the end of the cylinder and should be noticeable I would think if that's what's happening. Don't know what else would make a new gun act like that.
 
The other ammo has all the bullets intact, still crimped in the cartridge cases. If the cases were backing out the hammer would still move a bit to the rear until the cylinder starts to rotate after the second click (half #### or unloading station) and the cylinder is free to spin. I am not even able to recock to the first or second click or I could unload the cylinder to safely get off the firing line without removing the cylinder pin. Thanks for answering and your interest.
 
Italian pistols can have some very rough recoil plate finish and some large variances in recoil plate-cylinder clearance (basically headspace). You probably have a "high" spot of metal somewhere on the recoil plate, usually a bit of a pressure ring left over from drilling the firing pin hole. On a "tight headspace" gun this will grab the primer dent on a spent round making it very difficult to rotate the cylinder, locking the gun up. The recoil plates on Italian SAA is very hard stuff and a small knife stone is required to smooth out any machining imperfections that there may be. I usually paint the plate with a magic marker before starting to use the stone, any high pinch spots will be immediately evident. Sometimes only a few strokes with a stone is all it takes, others take a lot of work. while I am doing this operation I usually spend a little time smoothing the "ramp" (that's what I call it anyways) that is at the 2 oclock position of the recoil plate. Smooth this little transition ramp up a bit so your shells don't bind on it at all on their way around in the cylinder.
 
A few things come to mind but if your firearm is new and under warranty, ignore everything below and take it back to the store.

1. Check and see if the primers are backing out of the spent case. Hopefully it's this cause it's an easier fix.

2. Check and see if the base pin is not loose or the spring isn't too soft. I've had the base pin work loose on my Uberti before and the base pin slipped forward and the back of the cylinder went out of alignment and the gun locked up. A stiffer spring and some blue loctite fixed that problem.

3. I noticed with some Pietta and Uberti SAA, the recoil shield may not be flat (facing the cylinder) and have a sharp lip/burr to it. This could cause the shells to get hung up on it esp if the base pin bushing and cylinder aren't properly fitted.

If option 3, load up some sized empty cases into the cylinder and set the hammer to half-####. Point the muzzle to the ceiling and slowly rotate the cylinder. Does it lock up? If so, knock down the sharp lip/burr. If the cylinder and base pin bushing isn't isn't properly fitted, too much material from the cylinder's ratchet area might have been removed. If there's enough play, you can buy shim washers to move the cylinder away from the recoil shield area. Some base pin bushing work might be required if it's too snug BUT you're better off taking it to a smith to get that work done as you want to keep the gap between the cylinder and forcing cone within tolerance or accuracy/velocity can become degraded and you don't want too much end shake.

4. There may be burrs or issues with the pawl, bolt and/or cam on the hammer causing it to hang up. Definitely want to have a smith do the repair if this is the case.
 
I had a issue like that. It turned out to be the primers . Either I didn't seat them deep enough or they backed out. I've been giving them a good firm seating , since it first happened, and it hasn't happened since.
 
Brianma65 said:
I had a issue like that. It turned out to be the primers . Either I didn't seat them deep enough or they backed out. I've been giving them a good firm seating , since it first happened, and it hasn't happened since.
Click to expand...

That often happens with real light powder loads (almost "squibe" pressure) with very light bullets but the OP seem so indicate he is using mag loads...they would re-seat any primer on firing I would think.
 
Thank you for the information, all of the responses are well received.
Fingers284,, the recoil pad the firing pin comes through to strike the primer does have a knife sharp ring sort of around one half of the hole. I will carefully remove this and see what the result is.
It is definitely caused by recoil as loading up dummy rounds I made from spent cartridges and polymer projectiles will not induce locking up.
 
How deep are the strike marks in the primers that do go off? I'm asking because if you have a burr around the firing pin hole it suggests that the hammer and FP are coming forward too much. And if that is the case then perhaps the primers are pressure forming around the nose of the pin and grabbing it. The fact that you say you can't even get the hammer to the first click suggests that this or something related is the issue.

Also when you say you can't get to the first click does the hammer move at all? If so then that would prove it isn't sticking in the primers. And does the bolt retract or at least start to move if you're able to move the hammer at all?
 
The strike marks are very prominent and yes the hammer is locked after firing and will not move back to the first click. When this happened I resorted to removing the cylinder axle and then the hammer would move back enough that I could take out the loaded cylinder to get off the range.
The cylinder axle has 2 positions with a lock. One position is fully to the rear where the axle will stop the hammer from striking when the trigger is pulled. The second locked position is forward a fraction of an inch and allows the hammer to fall fully and strike the primer.
The axle has to be aligned properly after assembly or it will not lock in either position.
 
The first thing I would check is the base pin as mentioned by Trinimon......also some Italian copies have a flat base pin instead of the round authentic, a la Colt base pin and if it is not properly aligned the the base pin screw, it will move forward with the vibration.
OK
 
What sort of ammo are you using? High power or very low power "cowboy" loads? I ask because very low pressure loads might be resulting in the primers coming back out then the pressure in the cartridge not being enough to re-seat them. If so they will jam against the recoil shield.

Next up is to check the depth of the firing pin mark. They should be fairly large but not overly deep. If very deep it might be that the firing pin is sticking forward too far and being swaged around the pin which puts a firm hold on the pin. With no cylinder in the gun dry fire and hold the trigger back. Measure the protrusion of the firing pin portion sticking out through the hole in the recoil shield. If the protrusion is quite a lot the pin may need to be shortened a few thou and re-rounded and re-polished.
 
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