Pillar bedding recommended? Services where?

alfie318

alfie318

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Hello,

I've got a Ruger Hawkeye Guide Gun and I'm looking into pillar bedding since I saw some dude from Alaska on YouTube have the laminate stock break on him after a while, and he brought it up as something that would help increase the longevity of the stock among other things. Is this something that you guys would recommend? It seems like people around generally see it as only having upsides, at least when done competently. Also, apparently the M77 action is different in that the front screw is at a 60 degree angle or something, but I don't know if that presents a significant issue. If you do recommend this, do you know how I should go about finding someone who can get this done properly? I've been looking around to the best of my ability and can barely find anything specifically relating to pillar bedding except for 2-3 places in BC and AB (I'm in ON). Should I just go asking around Gunsmithing places near me with decent reviews and asking them or is that a recipe for having my stock busted?

As a side note, it's actually so hard, relatively speaking, to find firearms related things for Canada online; unless I'm just looking in the wrong places. I'm spoiled by search engines.

Thanks a bunch.
I barely know what I'm talking about, so please excuse any cringey assumptions I've made.
 
are you sure you dont mean it has a 60* bolt lift? Nothing in google images makes me think the actions screws arent just parallel.

Pillaring is as easy as putting the stock in square and straight in a vice, re-drilling the holes and gluing in the pillar. Stepped is best, but smooth steel or brass tubing will work just fine! I did mine at work just with an endmill.
 
Jahnj0584 said:
are you sure you dont mean it has a 60* bolt lift? Nothing in google images makes me think the actions screws arent just parallel.

Pillaring is as easy as putting the stock in square and straight in a vice, re-drilling the holes and gluing in the pillar. Stepped is best, but smooth steel or brass tubing will work just fine! I did mine at work just with an endmill.
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It's definitely an angled action screw as with all Ruger 77s.images.jpeg

I had one in 338WM crack right in front of this screw.

Would recommend pillar bedding and steel crossbolts. I would also make sure the tang is relieved to have good clearance all around al it doesn't chip or crack is there is any movement under heavy recoil.
 

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It will also scare the be-jesus out of you to find out the torque spec on that angled screw - Ruger calls for WAY higher than other vertical screws! Circa 90 inch-pounds force - higher than my little toque wrench can read.

Not much experience to install pillars - except when epoxy bedding the action - seemed to be important that the action screw is dead centre within that pillar - not touching it - the "pillar" is not meant to transmit recoil pulse to action screw or stock - is just to assist for "straight down" pull by the action screw - a "spacer" between action to floor plate - I think ...
 
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I've got a Ruger Hawkeye Guide Gun and I'm looking into pillar bedding since I saw some dude from Alaska on YouTube have the laminate stock break on him after a while, and he brought it up as something that would help increase the longevity of the stock among other things
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it would be helpful to know where and how the stock broke. You cant fix stupid and if he drove over it with a F350 and it broke at the wrist .. not a whole lot can practically be done. Generally laminated stocks are extremely strong (and heavy!) and I see these Guide Guns already have a forward crossbolt installed which I presume the recoil lug bears against. Anyway .. seeing where and how the stock failed may be helpful.
 
OP, Ruger made the same mistake with that ##### screw on their guide gun as they did on their NO1 single shot.

It's a pain in the proverbial butt and if it isn't torqued properly, as alluded to by Potashminer, it will cause all sorts of grief.

You can try pillars but, on that rifle, I would glass bed it all with good epoxy and drill out the screw hole with just enough clearance that it won't bind after torquing.

Some of the Ruger laminated stocks supposedly have issues with separation and crushing at the recoil lug area, UNDER VERY HARSH CONDITIONS and hamfisted maintenance.

I can't count the numbers of stocks I've had to repair because of people that insist on torquing the screws as hard as they can turn them. Some folks even use a wrench style screwdriver, such as those that come in "gunsmith kits"
 
i as well live in southern Ontario and could not locate anyone locally that would pillar and bed my free recoil stock with my single shot 54 action Anschutz .

Henry Remple did it for me as well as a few other machining ( metal trigger guard, and front rest components)
superb quality - still using his services and will continue he's in Alberta
 
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If you simply glass bed the action with no stress and then just tighten that front screw good and tight and the rear screw good and snug after the epoxy has cured it will be fine... pillars are highly over rated in my opinion... especially in a 77 action.
 
guntech said:
If you simply glass bed the action with no stress and then just tighten that front screw good and tight and the rear screw good and snug after the epoxy has cured it will be fine... pillars are highly over rated in my opinion... especially in a 77 action.
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100% agree. Would you also recommend bedding the bottom metal?
 
Difficult to drill the angled front screw properly for a pillar without the right equipment. I’ve only bedded a couple 77 Hawkeyes for a friend one was in 338 win with a small wood stock. I roughed up the area around front and rear tang and used a Dremel to mill out a few small channels for bedding around the recoil lug area. I used a few dabs of bedding compound around the rear tang and a decent amount around the front and waxed the front action screw then tightened everything down and backed off the torque on the front screw and let cure stress free. Gun has shot well and no cracked stock.
 
I'm not sure pillar bedding would reduce the chance of recoil induced stock damage. It very well might contribute to the stability of the barreled action/stock interface; that is usually the reason it is done. A Ruger, with the angled front screw is a special case, and the front pillar would need to be carefully cut to fit the receiver.
 
Just as with most everything else, I drill a 5/8 inch hole and cast a glass pillar at the recoil lug. I use a smaller hole (1/2 inch) for the rear screw. The center screw is not really part of the bedding and only serves to hold the front of the trigger guard in place. The splitting of the laminated stocks is usually caused by the poor quality of the veneer used for the laminations; not by any failure of the glue joint. The addition of cross-laminate reinforcing, in the form of an inletted screw or a dowel, is not a bad idea. I think the angled front screw is a good feature and have no problem with it.
 
Pillars are intended to serve as supports between your bottom metal and action to create a platform where even and consistent torque can be applied, whereas the wood could crush under the torque pressure over time creating uneven pressures.
But for what you are wanting the pillars for as to prevent the stock from cracking under pressure is probably not a good idea in my opinion as you have to remove material to install them which in my eyes is weakening the area.
 
Sako270 said:
Pillars are intended to serve as supports between your bottom metal and action to create a platform where even and consistent torque can be applied, whereas the wood could crush under the torque pressure over time creating uneven pressures.
But for what you are wanting the pillars for as to prevent the stock from cracking under pressure is probably not a good idea in my opinion as you have to remove material to install them which in my eyes is weakening the area.
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You'd be transferring stress from veneer layers into a metal instead though.
 
Indeed but if you have any voids or air pockets you have created a weak link and if there is not enough material behind the pillars it will shift back.

I’m not saying that it will happen, I’m saying risk over reward for what the OP is trying to accomplish.
If the intend was to try improve accuracy then yes I would agree pillars are part of the process.
 
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Sako270 said:
Indeed but if you have any voids or air pockets you have created a weak link and if there is not enough material behind the pillars it will shift back.

I’m not saying that it will happen, I’m saying risk over reward for what the OP is trying to accomplish.
If the intend was to try improve accuracy then yes I would agree pillars are part of the process.
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Unrelated to the OP's specific concern ... but regarding 'voids or air pockets' in the poured fibre glass/liquid compound .. with 'accraglass' anyway ..as a kid I worked as a concrete laborer and had used some rather large vibrators on concrete pours in dams. So I got the bright idea and started using a 'Wahl' electric hair clipper which has a significant 'vibration' which I held on the sides of stocks when installing aluminum pillars with glass. It was evident that it helped the compound to settle down nicely around the pillars. To be clear I only did this on a couple of stocks that I wanted to see if pillar bedding would help accuracy ... turned out that I am still a lousy shot!! Just throwing that out there if you lie awake at night wondering about voids in your glass bedding jobs.
 
AP said:
Unrelated to the OP's specific concern ... but regarding 'voids or air pockets' in the poured fibre glass/liquid compound .. with 'accraglass' anyway ..as a kid I worked as a concrete laborer and had used some rather large vibrators on concrete pours in dams. So I got the bright idea and started using a 'Wahl' electric hair clipper which has a significant 'vibration' which I held on the sides of stocks when installing aluminum pillars with glass. It was evident that it helped the compound to settle down nicely around the pillars. To be clear I only did this on a couple of stocks that I wanted to see if pillar bedding would help accuracy ... turned out that I am still a lousy shot!! Just throwing that out there if you lie awake at night wondering about voids in your glass bedding jobs.
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Depending where you are and the purpose, you might find that the air bubbles are part of the requirement - we poured much concrete here that is outdoors - subject to Manitoba winter freezing - paid dollars to have "air entrainment" chemical added - could not steel trowel that poured concrete or it would eliminate the air bubbles for the top layer and that layer would spall off when it froze. What you were doing on that dam pour obviously made sense there - not necessarily for what the epoxy was designed for? For example, I had read that bigger dam concrete pours often incorporate piping to flow water through - to take heat away from the curing concrete - I never heard of heat ducts for epoxy pours, but it might be done in some circumstances? Is at least possible that the bedding epoxy was designed to contain air bubbles - vibrating them out is not necessarily a "better" thing?
 
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