Planning a one week trip to see WW1 - 2 battlefields in Europe - Advice ?

Nabs

Nabs

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Hey all,

My chance has finally arrived, I am going with some family members to Europe to see the WW1 and 2 battle sites that are still out there. The trip will be more oriented towards WW1 though as I will also have about a week to explore and will be leaving sometime mid-late May of this year.

So far, two places I am planning on visiting are Metz-St. Julien and the Canadian heritage site at Vimy Ridge, any other good sites in the general Belgium-France area of interest ?

Edit: I remember seeing somewhere that the Newfound regiment has a memorial to their dead at the opening of the Somme, any idea where this site is located exactly ?

Also, what is the accepted practice if you come across "relics" such as pieces of shrapnel or bits of uniform...etc ? Do the locals really dislike people going through some of the fields in the spring looking for such items ? I know the Vimy Right site has areas that are roped off because of undetonated ordinance, what about out in the country side ? Anything else I should know or any other good tips from those that have gone before ?

Thanks all, I look forward to your responses.
 
As you approach Vimy you will see a few Canadian cemetaries in the middle of farmers fields. They are tended (in a large part) by the farmers who own the land............well worth the stop.

Vimy itself is breathtaking.
 
I remember reading that if you make sure you clearly show a Canadian flag icon on your backpack or something, that the staff at Vimy will treat you nicer/better than if you didn't show it ? Any real truth in this ?
 
Dieppe

Go see Dieppe. Read up on the history, study the wartime photographs and then go to Dieppe, Puys and Pourville. They haven't changed much and it's about as moving an experience as you can get.
 
Nabs said:
I remember reading that if you make sure you clearly show a Canadian flag icon on your backpack or something, that the staff at Vimy will treat you nicer/better than if you didn't show it ? Any real truth in this ?
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I hear they prefer the sight of an Imperial German flag on the backpack instead..... :stirthepot2:

imperial_german_flag_150.gif
 
Take a car. Serious. You CAN get to a lot of those places by available public transportation, but the system, at least the French, is abysmal.... and that's being nice.

When I was over there, I wanted to see Regina Trench; it was 2 days by local train from the station where I actually was...... 40 miles away.

Newfoundland memorial (the biggest one) is at Beaumont Hamel. They also have a series of monuments, smaller than the huge one, at other sports, including one right in the middle of Monchy-le-Preueux, which is where my friend Jack Snow was "killed" in 1917. You can get info from Newfoundland Tourism; ask about the Trail of the Caribou. Back before Confederation, Newfoundland issued a set oif postage stamps called "Trail of the Caribou", each one with a different war memorial on it, all to Newfoundland troops at the sites of the battles where they fought.

If you're close by Regina Trench, be sure to say a prayer. That was where the basic tactics were developed (at an appalling cost) with which they took Vimy Ridge the following Spring. It's only a few miles from Beaumont-Hamel.

GET a copy of G.W.L. Nicholson's CANADIAN EXPEDITIONARY FORCE 1914-1919. It was, at one time, the official single-volume history. VERY good accounts and EXCELLENT battle maps. Absolutely indispensible.

There should be fleamarkets and so forth around the battle sites and in the small towns nearby; you can get yourself a rum jug and a pair of wirecutters for about 40 bucks or so. Just stay away from the Mills bombs: the 36M was fully waterproofed and they stay live practically FOREVER.

Have a wonderful time!

And be sure to say a prayer.
 
Great suggestions so far guys, thank you!

I will check out that book, smellie, as I am interested in tracing some of the original trench lines on the current landscape. If you have ever watched that show on the History Channel called "For King and Country", the host does a similar walk around France and Belgium, locating these sites and that is what I would be very much interested in doing.

I had a relative (German) that was killed at a place called "Dead Man's Trench", I think, during 1917 but there is very little information on him. I remember seeing this marked on a war map in one of my books but I curious if it still exists ?
 
Go to a town called Bayeaux, rent a car and drive up the coast of Normandy. Many museums along the way and cemetaries. I did this trip a few years back and want a second chance to go back.
 
bogusiii said:
Go see Dieppe. Read up on the history, study the wartime photographs and then go to Dieppe, Puys and Pourville. They haven't changed much and it's about as moving an experience as you can get.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd1FNPx_YN4

it may be slightly off topic but this thread reminded me of this powerful old commercial.
I am extremely jealous of your opportunity, and i hope to be able to go within the next few years.
 
I would suggets that you decide on a "theme", like a particular unit/formation, a geographical area or a axis of advance an dlook at it from start to finish. You will probably get a better feel for the whole thing, than if you jump from one place to another.

This being said, if you go to the Metz area, you should climb the Mont St-Quentin (WEST of the city) and spend a day looking up the fortifications. See attached link.

http://w ww.darkplaces.org/Frankreich/WW1/Metz/Fort_de_St_Quentin/GF_St_Quentin_FR.html

I spent a few summers there as a young kid and had a lot of fun. I still go there from time to time, most of it is still standing.
 
It's a lot to cram into a week, but Normandy is a must see. Check out the Cdn beaches, see Caen, then the road to Falaise, and St Lambert where David Currie won his VC and an old CO of mine, Jack Summers, won an MC (both were in the South Alberta Regt). Make sure you see the cemetaries as well. I had my 16 yr old daughter with me when I was there in 1988 and she was very broken up to see the headstones of our 17-19 yr old troops.

You really need a rental car to do this. If you have a chance, and this has no real connection to Canada, go and visit Verdun. This was a monumental French battlefield in WW1. This should be compulsory for anyone who aspires to lead troops in battle or anyone who thinks that war is a glorious thing. The basement of the sombre Verdun ossuary contains the jumbled bones of 100,000 unidentified French and German dead.
 
So much great sites to see there. Pointe Du hoc was the most impressive to me. It is literally untouched since the war's end. Craters, bunkers and all, it's all still there. I saw it early on a foggy morning and it was eerie. Imagining that it was your job to scale those cliffs and attack it was humbling to say the least.

Next time I am back, I have to go to Verriere Ridge. A relative of mine was wounded (and subsequently died thereafter) there during Operation Totalize attacking Fontenay le Marmion. Not a lot of bunkers or anything there, but for us Canadians, it is an important area for us due to the cost in capturing it.

Have a great trip!!
 
Suggestions:

1. Try to extend your trip. You probably already think a week is not as long as you would like. After a week you'll know there's lots more you wish you could visit.

2. If you can visit only one battlefield/memorial, it should be Vimy, unless you have a personal connection with another one, e.g. a relative who fought in a particular place.

3. I went to Dieppe many years ago, crossing by ferry from Newhaven, Sussex. I don't know if that ferry service is still running, and if it is, whether the times of sailings are much changed, but I was glad I made a point of booking the one that left at 2 or 3 in the morning or something so that I arrived in the port of Dieppe at dawn.

4. I agree very much with the suggestions of others above that any research you can do, such as reading about particular battles campaigns or following the progress of certain units or formations, or reading battlefield guides can really enrich your appreciation of the experience.

5. Start saving for your trip to Italy next.
 
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MistahJones said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd1FNPx_YN4

it may be slightly off topic but this thread reminded me of this powerful old commercial.
I am extremely jealous of your opportunity, and i hope to be able to go within the next few years.
Click to expand...

That is a powerful commercial. Thanks for posting.

I remember it from a few years ago, but dont recall the opening bit where the kid is walking the beach.
 
rent a car , stay in b&b's,go to Yepre,hill60,all the sites around Yepre, use mapquest and google earth and read lots on the internet before going.
 
I'll try to extend the trip time but it is somewhat fixed at the moment. I will take everyone's advice and pick a certain area to focus on so I do not lose the moment or appreciation for the sites I will be going to. Vimy is must see in my mind and it is top on my list for sure.

I was just curious how much remnants of past battles are left after 90 years of changing landscape. I'm sure you will run into an overgrown, hand dug trench in a forest or the remains of a mine crater (the ones at the Somme for instance).

I have been working hard to translate my great grandfather's military pass which has some areas where he was deployed, even some regiments he was attached to during WW1. It would be a great experience to re-trace his steps and the locations he was at a century ago.

I posted these on another forum but no response. I will post them here if anyone has more detailed information on Imperial German regiments and their locations.

Thanks all.
 
Check Nicholson's book. Very often he will show you on the maps what Imperial German regiment was facing what Canadian Battalion. My grandfather faced off against the regiment that Corporal Adolf Hitler was in for a period. Grandfather was a sniper and I have always wondered if he managed to get a shot off at Adolf.... and if that was the one he missed? How much would have been changed? How would the world have changed if all those men...... eight and a half million..... had been allowed to live?

The really important places (to Canadians) from the Great War all are in quite a small area. In one hour, you can be at Regina Trench and Albert or Bapaume or Beaumont-Hamel. The Somme battle was supposed to take 4 days to a week. It took 4 months. The final phase was called the Battle of the Ancre Heights, the Ancre being a little river that drains into the Somme. The battle was on the heights above the river... Beaumont-Hamel, if I remember rightly, is something like 5 miles away, and that is where the Newfoundlanders lost 92% of their entire little Army..... in 20 minutes. Beaumont-Hamel started the Somme, Regina Trench ended it..... and set the stage for Vimy Ridge. Flers-Courcellette also is on the Somme: first use of tanks 15/9/'16. A Coy, 5 B'n CMR followed one of the TWO Tanks allottted to Canada to take the Sugar Factory; my old friend Capt. George Dibblee DCM was there, told me what it was like. Amazing!

And be sure to see the Menin Gate at Ypres at sunset.

A little town called Bayeux..... William the Bastard's capital at one time. William put together a fleet of 700 ships and took Englaland from Cyning Harold Godwinsson..... in 1066. That is where the Tapestry is; 11th-Century photojournalism at its finest, with a subtle message from the Ministry of Norman propaganda thrown in! That part of the world has been fought over from time immemorial.

See it all, save up, go again and again.

But Nicholson is a MUST. Get a copy and, if you are into the subject, it will become your second Bible. It's that good and it's that thorough.

Have fun!
 
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You will not find much evidence on ordinary farm land, most of which was quickly put back under the plough once the war was over. Great efforts were made to clear up the debris and remove munitions, but the plough turns up shells that creep a bit closer to heaven every year. They just stack them at the side of the field and leave them for the army to collect.
The Somme area, unlike the Ypres salient or industrialised Northern France, is something of a commercial backwater and hasn't changed so much. Even so, outside of the preserved parks like the Newfoundland Memorial or Lochnagar Crater, both on the well-trod tourist route, there are few obvious signs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_Memorial_Park
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lochnagar_mine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_National_Vimy_Memorial
 
Oh God,
I could write about this for hours.

I could give my own tours along with Norm Christie.

After listening to everything and everyone, you will be on overload real quick.

They are all write,

but the best comment is,,,,

I would suggets that you decide on a "theme", like a particular unit/formation, a geographical area or a axis of advance an dlook at it from start to finish. You will probably get a better feel for the whole thing, than if you jump from one place to another.
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Thats why most Battlefield Tours have a theme.

You will feel like the Pin Ball in a machine once you return if you don't heed the above advice.

It will look great and feel great for the moment (hopping around) but alas it will become a blurr.

Last point,
If you don't plan on returning,,, GO FOR IT,, GIVE R.

Do the locals really dislike people going through some of the fields in the spring looking for such items ?
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They don't say much, it was bought and paid for by the Canucks, Newfs, Brits and Yanks ect, ect.

Be careful at what you touch.

cigar_man

And be sure to say a prayer.
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and sign the books,, bring your own PEN.

Vimmer.jpg


Two fitting renditions that where done in Remembrance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG5OGhV8DHQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4l3Rgq-L1M&feature=related
 
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