Plastic or steel
- Thread starter Above49TH
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I'm a fan of the 1911 so metal it is for me. I've shot many different plastic/polymer handguns but have never really liked them. I do want to try a Walther 22lr however ill most likely end up with a Kimber or colt 22 Lr 1911 style
Have you tried a Gen 4 with no backstrap ?
OP: i own both metal and polymer handgun and all get similar amount of range time. Although my favorite is my Glock17, its the one I shoot most accuratly for some reason.
I used to be a steel guy... of course I love all my revolvers, from single six to BFR. With the semis, I used to shoot my 1911s a lot and I still like them, but most the times they stay in the safe while the M&P gets used 90 % of the time compared to my 1911s AND the revolvers.
I'm converted to polymer, I guess...
CG
I'm converted to polymer, I guess...
CG
Steel slide (or aluminum alloy slide for 22LR) does not slide directly on a polymer frame (normally glass fiber reinforced polymer composite like the most popular Zytel-in that sense it’s not really “plastic”). There is always a steel INSERT bolted to the polymer composite frame on which the slide slides. A polymer composite frame is just for gripping the gun and it reduces weight. It doesn’t really carry any high mechanical stresses. For this, the frame doesn't have to be steel or aluminum, really.
Still alive
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Rainy mosquito infested part of BC
It's called evolution. When Glocks first came out and were massed produced, they were ugly ( still are) but they gained wide acceptance for their reliability, corrosion resistance, firepower and weight savings. The proliferation of polymer guns now prove their worth. The acceptance into most military and police forces of the world for the last 30 years also make them viable in the eyes of civilians.
Granted, the first VP-70 was a really ugly gun with an awful trigger but Glocks made a quantum improvement on that and now we have the choice.
It's thanks to Gaston Glock that we have this thread so go shoot whatever you want. Metal or plastic, they are both here to stay.
When the first electric cars came out, the naysayers were aplenty but look at how well the Tesla is doing now.
Granted, the first VP-70 was a really ugly gun with an awful trigger but Glocks made a quantum improvement on that and now we have the choice.
It's thanks to Gaston Glock that we have this thread so go shoot whatever you want. Metal or plastic, they are both here to stay.
When the first electric cars came out, the naysayers were aplenty but look at how well the Tesla is doing now.
I know that polymer guns use steel inserts. I've taken my guns apart before.
A polymer frame isn't just for gripping the gun. It still has to hold the various steel inserts installed together and take the forces imparted on them. As far as I know, the steel parts in polymer frames are not a single piece, but multiple pieces molded into the frame, that require the properties of the polymer to keep them there.
I was just saying there is a difference in feeling between short lengths of loose-fitting rail inserts, and full-length frame rails with just the right about of clearance to glide nicely.
An interesting discussion to be sure. I have shot both types but do not have enough "time in the saddle" with either to know which I prefer.
One concern/question I have, polymer and extreme cold conditions. Northern Canada can be cold and some plastics just can't stand up. Anyone who has experience with polymer and winter know about this issue?
One concern/question I have, polymer and extreme cold conditions. Northern Canada can be cold and some plastics just can't stand up. Anyone who has experience with polymer and winter know about this issue?
I know that polymer guns use steel inserts. I've taken my guns apart before.
A polymer frame isn't just for gripping the gun. It still has to hold the various steel inserts installed together and take the forces imparted on them. As far as I know, the steel parts in polymer frames are not a single piece, but multiple pieces molded into the frame, that require the properties of the polymer to keep them there.
I was just saying there is a difference in feeling between short lengths of loose-fitting rail inserts, and full-length frame rails with just the right about of clearance to glide nicely.
Of course, the polymer composite frame (not just polymer) must also accommodate the steel internals. But the frame doesn’t carry any high stresses by itself, that’s why from the mechanical point of view it is just designed for gripping and reducing weight. The steel insert is not molded into the frame just pressed into it and pinned in a few places to the frame. For my Grand Powers it is sufficient to remove two pins and then the entire steel insert can be pried off without a big problem. Similarly for my Walther PPX. However, the steel inserts can be very different like those with two very short rails, like in my PPX, just for guiding the steel slide, or a full rail like in my Grand Powers where the slide runs nearly its whole length within those steel rails. During shooting all principal stresses are carried out by the steel insert and its parts. Not much stresses are transferred to the composite frame. The frame itself is NOT POLYMER. It’s a composite of short glass fibers in a polymeric matrix, mostly polyamide (nylon). Addition of glass fiber reinforces the polymeric matrix. Just pure polymer would be too weak. Nevertheless, after some time the polymer composite frame can be distorted to a smaller or larger extent around those steel pins that keep it together with the steel insert.
Like I mentioned above it is not pure polymer/plastic but a polymer matrix composite reinforced with short glass fibers. I know that they are NOT becoming brittle down to -40degC. I guess that the composite material would even withstand temperatures around -50degC without becoming brittle.
I must admit that I've never owned or disassembled the HK as somehow I have not had any interest in them. From polymer composite frame handguns I own the Grand Powers (.22LR and 9 mm) and a Walther PPX. They are absolutely sufficient for me and superior shooters. If the steel inserts are molded into the HK frame then I guess they cannot be removed for cleaning. I much prefer to have removable inserts to clean them from time to time (not too often though). I also have a full steel frame pistol and an aluminum frame pistol (a Walther P1). In our time there is nothing wrong with shooting the polymer composite frame pistols. They are as good as or even better than the metal-frame pistols. It's just a matter of a personal taste.
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I shot my M&P trough 2 winters ( outside range ), never encountered a problem. My fingers gave up before the polymer did.
CG
I went out to Glock day at WS and gave them all another try, with a few mags through each.
I felt a lot more comfortable with them this time and did not notice the missing weight as much.
I was impressed with the KPOS chassi hitting a target at a 100yds with a 5" 9mm.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1445126-2016-Glock-day
I felt a lot more comfortable with them this time and did not notice the missing weight as much.
I was impressed with the KPOS chassi hitting a target at a 100yds with a 5" 9mm.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1445126-2016-Glock-day
Cool (pun intended). I haven't done any outdoor winter shooting yet but plan to this coming winter. Also, -10 to -15 C is probably the lowest I would care to endure while shooting. Probably very safe temperature range for the plinking I do. I am assuming that most of this firearm technology is based on military application standards and would be expected to operate in multiple climate conditions. Even firearms made for the average Joe would be manufactured/designed based upon that stringent military set of parameters. Maybe not as tough as the military applications but tough nonetheless.
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
Did a quick search of this thread and did not see any reference to the FNH FNS 9 or 40.
As I recently acquired three of these pistols, I'd like to share that I am now a firm believer in polymer framed pistols, at least the FNS variety.
I'm both old and old school, so have equated firearm quality with them being built of blued ordnance or stainless steel and wood. Took a while before aluminum framed pistols found a place in my safe. Even longer to allow a polymer striker fired pistol into my small family of handguns, a Glock 17RTF.
However, I am very happy that a buddy let me shoot his FNS9L three months ago. That quick encounter with this awesome pistol changed my thinking almost overnight. It shot so well, felt even better in the hand, being ergonomically better for my hands' physical configuration, than my 1911s. When he offered his FNS9L to me at a price I couldn't refuse, it was a no brainer. Within 3 weeks I added 2 x FNS40Ls off the EE, and I am lurking on the pistol EE for a good FNS9 deal.
Talk about an epiphany, of sorts. The FNS was the polymer pistol that opened my mind. It has the decent accuracy and hopefully the long service life of a Glock, without the "different" Glock grip angle. It is as ambidextrous as any semi auto pistol can be.
It may not have the parts and after market accessory availability of Glocks or 1911s, but that is of no concern to me. My guns don't get shot much because they are on a range rotation schedule. I shoot 10 - 50 rounds per gun per trip. I don't see needing spare parts for a very long time, probably never in my lifetime. Calgary Shooting Center has a range rental FNS9 with 17000 rounds with no issues yet. The doesn't need any mods for my tastes and needs, even the trigger is fine.
As I recently acquired three of these pistols, I'd like to share that I am now a firm believer in polymer framed pistols, at least the FNS variety.
I'm both old and old school, so have equated firearm quality with them being built of blued ordnance or stainless steel and wood. Took a while before aluminum framed pistols found a place in my safe. Even longer to allow a polymer striker fired pistol into my small family of handguns, a Glock 17RTF.
However, I am very happy that a buddy let me shoot his FNS9L three months ago. That quick encounter with this awesome pistol changed my thinking almost overnight. It shot so well, felt even better in the hand, being ergonomically better for my hands' physical configuration, than my 1911s. When he offered his FNS9L to me at a price I couldn't refuse, it was a no brainer. Within 3 weeks I added 2 x FNS40Ls off the EE, and I am lurking on the pistol EE for a good FNS9 deal.
Talk about an epiphany, of sorts. The FNS was the polymer pistol that opened my mind. It has the decent accuracy and hopefully the long service life of a Glock, without the "different" Glock grip angle. It is as ambidextrous as any semi auto pistol can be.
It may not have the parts and after market accessory availability of Glocks or 1911s, but that is of no concern to me. My guns don't get shot much because they are on a range rotation schedule. I shoot 10 - 50 rounds per gun per trip. I don't see needing spare parts for a very long time, probably never in my lifetime. Calgary Shooting Center has a range rental FNS9 with 17000 rounds with no issues yet. The doesn't need any mods for my tastes and needs, even the trigger is fine.
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I have no problem with polymer pistols in general but I went through 2 plastic guide rods on a sig 250, and my ruger American 9mm mag base plate broke, cheap plastic crap. I don't mind Polymer lower but I like steel trigger, hammer fired, not striker, and metal guide rods and mags please..
