Please help identify Military 9mm ammo and Ball Carbine .30M1 ammo

The ROC

The ROC

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So as my dad continues his clean up we came apon these:

- 6 boxes of 9mm ammo. Father says these 9mm where meant for the Sten gun... might be too much for my M&P9 to handle. What can you guys tell me about these 9mm's and is the powder charge in the +P and above range?

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- Next are two boxes (89rds left) of Ball Carbine .30M1, I know he got them for his M1 Carbine but what alse can you tell me about these and are they worth much money now adays?

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Thanks for the help.
 
9MM by Dominion Arsenal Quebec, this is meant for STEN & Sterling SMG, Browning pistol. Loaded hotter than American commercial ammo, noncorrosive.
 
Good run of the mill service ammunition. Canadian ball ammo functions perfectly in the Browning HP, the "Sterling" SMG and the STEN. In my Browning, it kills paper targets with depressing repetitiveness.

The "thirty carbine" ammo is just right for suppressive fire with an M1 carbine while hightailing to somewhere else. Although many enemies have been killed by carbine fire, I'm sure a lot more were simply annoyed by it. The load is a marginal rifle cartridge and only one step above a mid power pistol round.
 
woodchopper said:
But it would be much better out of my Inglis HiPower :D you better send it all to me for safe disposal :D
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LOL... Show me some money $$$

I wonder what the FPS and bullet weight is for these 9mm rounds? Could it make Major PF in IPSC?

Or should I continue to save them for that day when the SHTF?
 
"...sure a lot more were simply annoyed by it...one step above a mid power pistol round..." Internet inspired nonsense. Stand in front of one if you think it'll just annoy you. You could wear a Chi-Com quilted jacket, if you like.
That 110 grain bullet has a MV of 1900fps. Max for a 110 grain bullet out of a .357, the cartridge the carbine is usually compared to, is 1800fps with one powder.
It might be of some interest to a collector, but it's not terribly valuable as such. The full box would bring more though.
The 9mm is stolen from the CF. Relax. Nobody is looking for it. Good reliable ammo, but not particularly accurate. Not made for that. Oh and the CF didn't have SMG and pistol ammo. You got the same ammo no matter what you were shooting that day.
"...FPS and bullet weight..." 124 grains at 1263ish fps, 15' from the muzzle. Standard NATO spec.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
The load is a marginal rifle cartridge and only one step above a mid power pistol round.
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Kinda thing you hear from someone that's only experience with .30 carbine is online.

Tell that to all the Germans, Japanese and Koreans that have been hit by it. Tell that to the 75+ Coyotes & Wolves that I've hit with it. None have ever needed another shot for punctuation.

Of all the guns and calibers in my inventory, if the #### ever hit the fan, my M1 would be coming with me, and the rivets would be coming out of my 30rnders. Not my VZ, Not my AR, Not my M1A, not my Swiss Arms, etc... I've fired 10's of thousands .30 carbine rounds and it always goes where you want it to go and It's a "man-killer". Plain and simple.


As for the .30 in question, I'd be more than glad to take it off your hands. Shoot me a price, and I'll mail the yote tails to "maple_leaf_eh"...
 
"... if the s**t ever hit the fan, my M1 would be coming with me..." Ditto. You have a bunch of non-shooting people to look after too? I'm not using milsurp ball though. Not accurate enough. A Speer 110 grain HP with IMR4227 blows a grapefruit sized hole in a ground hog.
Met a guy, long ago, who was at Kap Y'ong with 2PPCLI. He said he didn't care if it took 2 rounds of ball ammo, he loved the carbine.
 
Agree with the comments on the 9mm's accuracy. I picked up a few boxes of that at the Kamloops gun show 2 years ago, I ended up just banging it off for fun.
 
When it was still legal to hunt with the M1 carbine, before they restriced the issue wone anyway, I liked to use it for deer from a tree stand or ground blind. None of the shots were over 75 yards, if even that far. With 110 grain hollow points it did yeoman service and was great for junior shooters that didn't need to be put off by recoil.

Another nice thing about the hollow points is that they would enter both lungs but not come out the other side. A good thing in some of the areas we were shooting. Usually out of somebodies garden or strawberry patch. Sometimes coming out of the barn, after a raid on the chop.

For it's intended purpose and range, the 30 carbine worked well. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a fmj from one at any distance.
 
bearhunter said:
When it was still legal to hunt with the M1 carbine, before they restriced the issue wone anyway, I liked to use it for deer from a tree stand or ground blind. None of the shots were over 75 yards, if even that far. With 110 grain hollow points it did yeoman service and was great for junior shooters that didn't need to be put off by recoil.

Another nice thing about the hollow points is that they would enter both lungs but not come out the other side. A good thing in some of the areas we were shooting. Usually out of somebodies garden or strawberry patch. Sometimes coming out of the barn, after a raid on the chop.

For it's intended purpose and range, the 30 carbine worked well. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a fmj from one at any distance.
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I think from Jim Cirillo's police stories while he was with the NYPD Stakeout Squad, this carbine and HP bullet was the only rifle cartridge they used in thier duties IIRC.
(besides authorized 45 1911s, extra M10 38s, and/or various snubbies, and issue M37 Ithaca shotguns too)

I think the only reputable source of a few negative comments about the M1 carbines lack of dependability, came from a book on the US ground forces in the Korean War I have. It's packed away, and the title escapes me now.
It was written that during extremely colder weather, the carbine did not have the energy to work the action like a good semi or full auto should.
Certainly if any lubrication was left on the action parts, this would contribute to undepandable cycling.
Another 'complaint' was it's lack of punch to knockdown the enemy. But other soldiers were quick to point out, this was often the result of engaging hostile enemy soldiers at too far a distance. This was not an uncommon event, especially when the war stagnated into a 'trench war' near the end of this asian conflict.

Just for further info, and not to discredit the war baby, the M1 rifles and BARs were always dependable with some effort in care/maintenance.
 
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"...M1 rifles and BARs were always dependable..." Not in extreme cold, if they were grease lubed. Any semi-auto will stop working if it's grease lubed in extreme cold.
 
Brutus said:
Just for further info, and not to discredit the war baby, the M1 rifles and BARs were always dependable with some effort in care/maintenance.[/QUOTE]


What part of this sentence do you not understand sunray?

This is the war veteran's own words from personal combat experiances, who is anyone to question him?

Certainly not me?
How about you?
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Ahem. I had a 30 Carbine for a while. The gun was simple but not crude, and enjoyably accurate to 100yds. It is easy for a small person to shoot. I never hunted with it. The deer had regulations forbidden 110gr low-energy bullets by then.

My opinions on the ballistic performance follow the counsel of the mainstream of gun writing that the Thirty Carbine was on the very low end of the spectrum of acceptible deer cartridges. I've hunted since then with 12ga, .303BR, 7.62x39, .30-06, .308 and .300WM, and never felt overgunned.

While there no doubt plenty of dead enemies despatched by .30 Carbine fire and the troops carrying the handy little rifles had confidence in them. The 20rd magazine is 2 1/2 times greater capacity than an M1 Garand. The BAR's is only 20rds, and had tremendous firepower for its time. In Korea, Canadians had bolt action rifles, BREN and STEN guns. It doesn't take much imagination to get all warm and fuzzy about a little self-loading rifle that has negligible recoil. As for others' writing on the Carbine's military effectiveness, I must admit to not having read (or remembered) many of US Army after action reports. As a firearm, it has plenty of fans, but that is not the same as liking the cartridge.

From Barnes' Cartridges of the World (9th ed):
-30 Carbine 110gr FMJ, 1900 fps, 882 ft/pds (with an effective range of 150yd )
-5.56x45 55gr FMJBT, 3250 fps, 1290 ft/pds energy (not a legal deer cartridge)
-32 Winchester Self-Loading 165gr SP, 1400 fps, 760 ft/pds energy ('strictly a small to medium game number at close range', 'a candidate for the title: "World's Most Useless Centerfire Rifle Cartridge." ')
-7.62x39 123gr SP, 2365 fps, 1552 ft/pds energy (a low power, but perfectly suitable deer cartridge)

In comparison:
-357 Magnum 125 gr JHP, 1450 fps, 583 ft/pds energy (which is twice as powerful as the same bullet in a .38 SPL)
-44 Magnum in a 20" rifle 180gr JHP, 1720 fps, 1580 ft/pds energy ('one of the few commercial handgun cartridges that can be considered fully adequate for big game hunting')
 
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