Getting into long range shooting, and while the .308 has proven itself over and over, I'm looking for something a little different. It seems the 6mm caliber is very popular out to 1000 yards, but I'm looking at either the Remington Sendero or one of the Savage 12 models in 6.5 X .284 Norma. The rifles are similar in price, but I have no experience with either. I've read on here that there is lots of room for growth with the Remington because of endless aftermarket parts. I will be reloading as well and have loaded for rifle before. So some advice on either rifle and on the Norma caliber for shooting F Class from 300 to 1000 yards. Thanks all.
Please help me choose
- Thread starter Rhodesian16
- Start date
Both rifles will work well, the savage will have more accuracy potential out of the box. If you're competent at reloading, get the Norma. It will buck the wind better and shoot flatter. I actually prefer the 6.5x47, but I don't believe it's factory chambered in those rifles.
r204
Your advise is very good, putting on barrels is very expensive now 800.00 +, the 6.5/284 using match 140 gr bullets with a BC of 600, you can shoot 200 gr at 612 bc or the 215 at 691 Bc is a better choice
The 6.5/284 was king of the hill for many years but time has passed it bye in Fclass
Mystic Precision
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If the goal is to compete in F class, consider starting with a donor and building to your needs.
Factory barrel, no matter how good, just aren't in the same league as match barrels. You also will spend alot for factory parts, you may not want.
F class is a very demanding sport but doesn't have to cost alot to start... you just need to put the money into the parts that make you most productive.
For cals, the 308 dominates LR FTR.... There are plenty of options that work without wearing a bore too fast or costing too much. You can be competitive with a fairly small invesment. Bipods and rests can be had for moderate costs.
F Open is pretty much the domain of mid case 7mm's. The 6.5's have pretty much all gone especially at events out to 1000yds. There are no factory rifles that will support what is needed for current Open set up. Also, the gear to support the rifle can be very expensive.
So if you really want to get into F class, I would lean you towards FTR because the cost of entry is far less. Yes, you can find a Savage FTR in 308 which can be competitive and make a great base for upgrades
But I wouldn't use a factory rifle in either case. That barrel is simply far too important and will limit the final accuracy regardless of the quality of components and reloading. A quality match barrel SAVES you alot of money in the long run.
Jerry
Factory barrel, no matter how good, just aren't in the same league as match barrels. You also will spend alot for factory parts, you may not want.
F class is a very demanding sport but doesn't have to cost alot to start... you just need to put the money into the parts that make you most productive.
For cals, the 308 dominates LR FTR.... There are plenty of options that work without wearing a bore too fast or costing too much. You can be competitive with a fairly small invesment. Bipods and rests can be had for moderate costs.
F Open is pretty much the domain of mid case 7mm's. The 6.5's have pretty much all gone especially at events out to 1000yds. There are no factory rifles that will support what is needed for current Open set up. Also, the gear to support the rifle can be very expensive.
So if you really want to get into F class, I would lean you towards FTR because the cost of entry is far less. Yes, you can find a Savage FTR in 308 which can be competitive and make a great base for upgrades
But I wouldn't use a factory rifle in either case. That barrel is simply far too important and will limit the final accuracy regardless of the quality of components and reloading. A quality match barrel SAVES you alot of money in the long run.
Jerry
Wow, some great replies. The info I got on the Norma cartridge was on a website from 2010. Obviously the .308 win is very popular. Plenty of loading options, and reasonably cheap factory ammo. Also, I read the Remington is a good option, but not necessarily the Sendero. Here's apparently why. The Sendero is quite pricey as compared to say, the Remington SPS. Almost twice the price actually. If you get a match grade barrel for it, then you're right around the price of the Sendero, but with a decent match barrel. Also, with Remington you have almost endless options for future aftermarket upgrades. Does this sound accurate? Also, I'm sure there are a number of posts on the accuracy potential of the .308, so I'll do some reading. But obviously they are more than capable of hitting out to 1000 yards, with the right equipment and a hell of a lot of practice.
The Remington SPS would likely require a new stock before you start trying to shoot accurately, several of the factory and Hogue stocks are too flexible and will not free float the barrel when you put on a bipod.
Make sure you scour the EE as well, you can save yourself some considerable money and might just stumble on something that meets or exceeds your needs.
Jerry mentioned the importance of a good barrel. I think half the battle is a high quality scope with good tracking.
One of the benefits of the Savage that wasn't mentioned is the barrel nut. You can buy and install match barrels yourself from what I understand.
Make sure you scour the EE as well, you can save yourself some considerable money and might just stumble on something that meets or exceeds your needs.
Jerry mentioned the importance of a good barrel. I think half the battle is a high quality scope with good tracking.
One of the benefits of the Savage that wasn't mentioned is the barrel nut. You can buy and install match barrels yourself from what I understand.
Ok. So I've decided that for the best bang for the buck, and the fact I've owned and had great luck with Remington in the past, I'm going to go with the Remington 700 Long Range. For the sub $1000 price, and with some really nice features for starting out, I think it's a good beginning to what could be a solid performer. Of course it will need upgrades, but at half the price of a Savage 12, it makes sense. Now, which caliber? I'm thinking either .300 Win Mag, or 7mm Rem Mag. I reload, so pricing out factory ammo isn't a big concern. I'm not competing, in case that matters. From what I've read there are more options for bullets with the .300, but is that really a concern? Once you find a load that works for a given distance, how often are you going to keep changing? I've read the 7mm shoots flatter. That might be a benefit. Any thoughts? Btw, a muzzle brake will likely go on regardless of the caliber.
I would not suggest a magnum anything for a first long range rifle. Average an extra 20 gr of powder for each round when comparing a .308 reload to a .300WM reload. This almost works out to either loading 2 rounds of .300WM or 3 rounds of .308 for the same price. Felt recoil between a .308 and a magnum will reduce your enjoyment over a long day of shooting. Flatter shooting doesn't mean too much, every bullet started to drop as soon as it leaves the barrel, no matter how fast it leaves the barrel. That's why the put those elevation knobs on scopes. Muzzle brakes will not make you any new friends at the range
What sort of long range shooting are you planning to do? Plinking at distant rocks? One of the competitive disciplines?
Having all sorts of aftermarket trinkets available is all very well. Some of them might even enhance your shooting.
You will want a quality optic with easy to make, repeatable adjustments.
Match grade factory ammunition is expensive; least expensive .308 I have encountered was the excellent Hornady 155gr Match @$30/box, all in. You will want to handload.
Getting some quality instruction/coaching will advance your skills rapidly.
Having all sorts of aftermarket trinkets available is all very well. Some of them might even enhance your shooting.
You will want a quality optic with easy to make, repeatable adjustments.
Match grade factory ammunition is expensive; least expensive .308 I have encountered was the excellent Hornady 155gr Match @$30/box, all in. You will want to handload.
Getting some quality instruction/coaching will advance your skills rapidly.
I've shot .50 cal long range rifles in the past. Everyone handles recoil differently. No different than I've seen a 90 pound woman handle a .45 acp with no issues over the course of a day of a 200 round match. I would like to start out recreational shooting out to 1000 yards. Competition at this time doesn't interest me. Possibly one day. I'm not going .308. I've reloaded for years. I understand the cost. I understand how well I manage recoil. That being said, I really do appreciate the opinions on the .308 and the advantage of using non magnum calibers. I've owned two .308's, and just want a little different animal. Also, regarding muzzle brakes, what is the issue? Of course we all know what they do. I would question anyone who sits down at a range and doesn't use proper hearing protection. Are open division IPSC shooters frowned against while at practice or during competition? No. I remember being ridiculed years ago while shooting at a local range because I was holding my 1911 with both hands while shooting. Some of the guys at the range made comments to me that it is called a handgun, not a handsgun. Obviously rediculous. So I'm not sure my response to the extra noise and pressure put out from a braked rifle would be much different. Thanks again for the replies. I think the 7mm is the way to go. I already have dies, having loaded it for friends in the past. But any opinions or tips on the Remington 700 Long Range rifle or the 7mm cartridge are much appreciated.
Go sit next to someone at a range using a muzzle break. Even with proper hearing protection it is unpleasant. If you're shooting alone or on a range that is not busy then have at it. Some ranges are indoor shooting positions (maybe yours is not) and firing a rifle with the muzzle indoors will be frowned upon.
