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- Thread starter Brappp306
- Start date
I watched my dealer set it up to proper specifications, I trust them with all the work they do. Everything is solid. No movement from the optics what so ever. Seemed to shoot perfect the first day I had it out, then all of a sudden it just went wacky, was never dropped or put in severe climates.
Edit, didn't read thoroughly enough regarding going back to the consistent Ammo.... so:
Even if you saw the dealer torque everything down, I'd still get the torque wrench out and set everything to spec. Some thing could be over or under tight.
When you were shooting those .6moa groups at 500yds, was the shooting position (bench, prone, bipod, rest) the same as now with the wonky groups?
Even if you saw the dealer torque everything down, I'd still get the torque wrench out and set everything to spec. Some thing could be over or under tight.
When you were shooting those .6moa groups at 500yds, was the shooting position (bench, prone, bipod, rest) the same as now with the wonky groups?
I was using the Hornady Precision Hunter 162gr ELX-D, that is what I sighted it in with as well. Yes everything is factory. Worked amazing. But even that ammo is shooting like complete garbage now... Something is wrong! I completely cleaned the rifle this evening, so if that doesn't help things tomorrow I'm going to start with the scope.
For my experience when a rifle does this with known quality ammo almost 100% of the time the scope is pooched. The quality of scope manufacture has declined so much since the mid '90's that when a rifle starts acting up I change the scope first thing.
You are expecting match accuracy out of a hunting bullet? It might be time to start reloading. 3 inch groups are great at 500 yard but it could be that the bullet just isn't designed to do what you are trying to do at longer distances.
Hi check the screws and threads in the rings, I have had what appeared to be properly torx screws , only to find that the threads were messed up during manufacturing in the ring itself allowing a slight movement only when rifle was fired. Or it might be time to hand load some target rounds
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Something has changed to cause your groups to open. It could be a scope problem, if so the only sure way to determine that is to try another proven scope in its place, and see if the problem is resolved. Another thing that could have changed is the ground you were shooting from. Perhaps your good groups were fired from soft ground, but when you returned to the range with the new ammo, the ground had frozen and was hard.
If you are shooting off a hard surface, the rifle could react as if the barrel was placed on a hard surface, and scatter your group. I usually place a pair of work gloves under the bipod feet, which acts as a cushion between the hard surface and the bi-pod, or provides a stabilizing surface if shooting on a sandy surface, so the feet don't dig in.
Do you load the bipod legs by the leaning forward for into them? Doing so exerts uniform support pressure on the rifle from shot to shot. Placing a duffle in front of the bipod legs may also help. If you have to reposition the rifle after each shot to reacquire your sight picture, your position or technique is flawed, and could be the reason for your scattered groups.
Another thing to check is the rifle's bedding, although this seems to be an unlikely culprit since earlier it was shooting well. Certainly though problems can arise if a single shooting session occurred with loose action screws. Remove the rifle from the stock and see if you can see any evidence of it moving within the bedding. You might see shiny spots on barrel or action, or signs of movement or damage in the bedding surfaces, such as marred corners within the bedding or even cracking through the action area or at the tang. Any significant damage to the bedding surfaces indicates that re-bedding is required before the rifle will shoot to it's potential. When you reassemble the rifle, watch for evidence that there is flex in the stock, you might see the barrel rise in the barrel channel as you torque the action screws. Depending on the type of stock you have, the action screws should have between 45-60 inch-pounds of torque. A wood stock should be torqued to the lower value, and a fiberglass stock pillars, to the higher.
This screams a mounting issue, not a scope issue. A 0.001" movement in your bases or rings equates to 1 MOA point of impact shift. Quality rings should not have to be lapped, rings have come a long way from the old days but the myth that you have to lap rings for a proper fit still persists.
Sorry but enough with the handloads crap, I fully understand to find true precision hand loading is a must! This is not about Precision, if you read properly it is not holding a solid group and shooting sporadically. I have yet to get into reloading, but I have been able to put down 3/4 MOA and under groupings with factory rifles and factory ammo. Certain quality factory ammo, such as the Hornady, Sako, and Nosler is very capable of much less that 1MOA at 100. I have been shooting long enough to know for a fact this isn't about shooting position or ammo, it is simply either the rifle or scope. I am heading over to a friends house to borrow his key torque wrench, try remounting the glass. Rifle is completely cleaned. So hopefully get some better results, if not I'll be sending in the glass. Thanks
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My bet is a rifle receiver bedding or barrel contact issue. Either something is loose or touching. My own experience with bad scopes is that every shot wanders. A good test of a scope is a series of cold barrel shots. If POI and POA remain consistent over these shots it is very unlikely the scope. If your problem manifests itself once the barrel heats up it points to a stock issue. This is a favourate reference of mine that I hope will be of help.
http://www.rifleman.org.uk/Fuller_group_diagnosis.htm
http://www.rifleman.org.uk/Fuller_group_diagnosis.htm
Regardless of what company makes the ammo, some lots are better than others. Last year in Antigua we shot Hornady 155 gr OTM ammo supplied by the Antigua Rifle Association. While most of it fit into the bullseye at 300, 500 and 600 yards, every once in a while you would get a flyer out of the group and out of the bull that could not be contributed to a bad wind call or a change in lighting conditions. I am talking 1.5 to 2 MOA out of the group.
I find that the overwhelmingly VAST majority of people who blame the scope for bad groups aren't very "gun literate". That isnt to say they are dumb but the fact is some shooters have an incredible knowledge of optics but most shooters who blame a scope for their shooting woes are exhibiting intellectual laziness. Bad groups and fliers can be caused by a giant laundry list of things. Bad chamber, nicked crown, bad rifling, bad bedding, excessive pressure on the stock, improper torque specs, out of spec rings, out of spec bases, out of spec receivers, out of spec rails, bases out of alignment, rings out of alignment, atmospherics, subconscience flinching, bad trigger manipulation, bad primers, bad hand loads, bad factory loads and on and on and on. The scope and optics seem to be the least understood aspect of long range shooting and therefore have an exaggerated amount of issues blamed on the scope when the cause lies elsewhere. Case in point is someone blaming parallax for their bad groups. Have them explain to you what parallax is, what causes it and how to mitigate it and my guess is they wont know the answer.
