I would like some light <1800 fps plinking loads for the 30-30 and I have read about various light loads with 12 Grn of Unique or 10 grn. of Blue Dot or 10 Grn of Herco etc. I put in 12 grn of Unique in the case and it hardly is any powder at all. Do I need to use some filler like corn meal or something to at least get the case 3/4 full? I have visions of having to hold the rifle up and then slowly bringing down to level before I can fire it.
Plinking Loads for 30-30. Use Filler?
- Thread starter hunter64
- Start date
Lyman 46th edition suggests following reduced loads for 30-30 with 170 gr cast bullets
.....................min..................................... max.............
unique............7.0 gr 1211 fps......................10.6 gr 1568 fps
red dot...........6.5 gr 1145 fps.......................8.5 gr 1363 fps
SR7625...........6.5 gr 1107 fps.......................9.0 gr 1348 fps
IMR3031.........22.5 gr 1599 fps.....................28.5 gr 2095 fps
IMR4895.........24.6 gr 1807 fps.....................28.0 gr 1973 fps
for jacketed bullets i'd up the minimum by a grain or so. You wouldn't need filler for the IMR3031 or IMR4895.
I don't load reduced loads for 30-30, but i have had good results on 30-06 using pillow filler (DACRON or similar man made long strand fibre) that you can buy at Walmart in the sewing or crafts section. I cut off a chunk, compress it by rolling in it in my fingers then push it down the neck. It expands and fills up the case or nearly so. You need to experiment to determine how big a chunk to cut off to start with. Its cheap, $2 worth has lasted me several hundred reduced loads and i've hardly made a dent in it yet. I've never had any residue or strange gunk left behind after firing, but you should check after each of the first few rounds to make sure you're not leaving anything harmful in the barrel.
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
My small game load for the .375 Ultra is 18 grs of Unique with no filler, and is quite accurate, although I don't push it beyond 50 yards. I don't make any effort to position the case so the powder is against the primer. I doubt that you'll find a filler necessary with Unique in the .30-30.
If you have access to SR-4759, it is an excellent powder for reduced velocity .30 caliber rifle cartridges.
If you have access to SR-4759, it is an excellent powder for reduced velocity .30 caliber rifle cartridges.
Ben: Trailboss would be good, I am trying to teach my 15 year old boy how to snap shoot at close range. My father did the same thing to me but it was in the early 70's and .303 british military ammo was very cheap about 8-10 cents a round and that is what I learnt on. So the reason for the Unique at 10 grn's is it is cheap, I use the same load for my 240 grn. 44 mag plinking load. I looked at IMR web site and they say max is 9 grn for a 160grn cast bullet so I will see how much that fills the case and if it needs Dacron or not.
Jethunter: I have heard about Dacron, I have just used corn meal in my blackpowder stuff and forgot about Dacron filler. Thanks for the reloading info.
Jethunter: I have heard about Dacron, I have just used corn meal in my blackpowder stuff and forgot about Dacron filler. Thanks for the reloading info.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Using small volume fast handgun powders like bullseye, you don't need fillers. They work fine.
Been there done that. In fact, with the small amount of powder you are using, the filler may inhibit performance.
The big issue here is the danger of double charging the case. There's room for a world of hurt when you start putting bullseye or other small volume powders in a 30-30, or other large volume case.
Be sure to double check your powder levels in each case before seating the bullet.
The large volume fast powders designed for cowboy action shooting, as mentioned in the posts above are an excellent choice.
Been there done that. In fact, with the small amount of powder you are using, the filler may inhibit performance.
The big issue here is the danger of double charging the case. There's room for a world of hurt when you start putting bullseye or other small volume powders in a 30-30, or other large volume case.
Be sure to double check your powder levels in each case before seating the bullet.
The large volume fast powders designed for cowboy action shooting, as mentioned in the posts above are an excellent choice.
You've got some wierd loads there - 12 gr of Unique, and then less of two slower powders. I'd go no more than 10 grs of Unique, 11 of Herco and 12-13 of Blue Dot and be at the same velocity (but at lower pressures).
I don't use fillers - ever, and I am sure you don't need a filler with Unique (with 30/30 and with any other cartidge). I can't speak from personal experience on the other two, but they likely will do fine without a filler (in 30/30) as well. I will be so bold as to suggest that no powder needs a filler in a case the size of 30/30, as I have seen many loads with many powder and none prescribed a filler (but that assumes that there is enough powder to kick the velocity up to the 1700+ fps range with the slower powders). With larger cases you do find powders that will not ignite reliably without a filler (e.g. 45/70), and I just avoid those powders.
If I could choose only one powder for all my handguns and rifles, it'd be Unique. That having been said, it's not my powder of choice for anything I can think of, but no other powder does as well across so many cartridges. People just don't sing its praises because it's old (i.e. not new) and supposedly "dirty".
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Avoid fillers unless you know exactly what you are doing with them. In particular, corn meal , Cream of Wheat and similar should never be used in bottle neck cases as those materials have the nasty habit of clumping if they absorb any moisture or bullet lube. It acts as a case plug if that occurs.
You might also consider AA5744 powder for reduced loads.
You might also consider AA5744 powder for reduced loads.
Low volume charges causing damage seems to me to be a real phenomenom, but i have no personal experience with it. I don't want to experience it either, so I use fillers.
The way i understand it, using small volumes of fast burning pistol powders produces a lower velocity because of the reduced volume of gas, but pressure can still be near maximum. You need to be just as careful and maybe even more so than with normal velocity loads. 12 grains of unique in a 30-30 is over maximum in my loading manual.
The best solution is to use one of the rifle powders already discussed, that will fill the case over 1/2 full. Can't go wrong then.
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Faster powders produce higher peak pressure, but lower average pressure than slower powders, so the amount must be limited or over-pressure will result. Since you can use more of a slower powder, and get a higher average pressure with that powder, you can get higher velocity with lower peak pressure. Another way to look at it that you can use more powder, and since equal amounts of powder (slow or fast), contain essentially the same amount of energy, you get higher velocity.
I didn't say 12.0 grains of Unique, I said 10.0 which is below 1/2 a case full, but completely safe for you and your family. You want to make it potentially dangerous - add filler to it. Not spoken here is the assumption that we are talking about cast bullets, which is what those loads are for.
Here are a few recognized safe loads for bullet weights up to 170 grs for the 30/30 - none use fillers and all are well below half a case:
Red Dot - 7.0 grs
Green Dot - 8.0 grs
SR7625 - 9.0 grs
Unique - 10.0 grs
Herco - 11.0 grs
Trail Boss answers so man of these questions about filler etc..
Using a 160gr Cast bullet in the 30-30, 6.5gr TB givs you about 990fps and 9gr gives you about 1100-1200fps.
Loading 5-6.5gr is really really quiet, no recoil and it actually penetrates quite well....
Using a 160gr Cast bullet in the 30-30, 6.5gr TB givs you about 990fps and 9gr gives you about 1100-1200fps.
Loading 5-6.5gr is really really quiet, no recoil and it actually penetrates quite well....
Well I headed to the range today to do some testing and some plinking. I loaded up my 30-30 with the Lee 160 grn sized to 309 and NRA lube and for good measure a dunking in Lee Liquid Lube. Tried Trail boss, loved how it metered and filled the case so no possible chance of a double charge, problem is the rifle didn't like it. Best group I got at 100 yards was 6" and that is with 10 shots. I tried Unique and right away with my first trial I got 3" with 8 grn. My best group was a hair under 2" for 10 shots and no flyer's with 9.5 grn of Unique. All cases were primed with WLR primers, slightly flared at the mouth and then I used the Lee Crimp die to finish them off. Hardly any recoil at all and lots of fun. I was worried about not igniting the Unique with such a low amount of powder and a huge case but all ignited just fine. Double checked to make sure there were no double charges before I seated the bullet. There was no evidence of leading and I am really happy with the results, I can plink with the Winchester cheaper than I can with my .44 magnum, just takes longer to load as all.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Get into casting bullets for the 44. It works well with small charges too. And, like the 30-30, cast bullets can be loaded to full power with a gas check, should you want to.
John: I have about 35 bullet molds and I am deep into casting. I was referring to the .44 mag that I load with 10 grn of Unique and the 30-30 that I will now load 9.5 grn. All 5 of my .44's have .432 throats on them so I am having a 6 bullet mold made from Lee, gas checked and should drop at .433. I think 1/2 the fun is casting and with the new Lead laws that I can see over the horizon, I am hording as much lead as I can get. It is getting harder and harder to find tire shops that will even sell me lead, they have all been told by there head offices that the used WW's go to a re-cycler and are not for sale to the public.
the other point is that filler materiel can and does "weld" itself to the sides of the cylinder and can be almost impossible to brush out- oh you can get it out of there, but i's almost like a scarring- moreso with cereal than a fibre like kapoc
BACK FROM THE DEAD!!!
Would these same suggestions hold true for big straight wall case such as a 45-70? I'd like to load for cowboy shooting, but have a gun I could hunt with too. But to get the velocities down low enough I'm worried I won't have enough powder to ensure proper (safe) ignition.
If Bullseye would work without filler it would be great as that what I planned on using for my .357
Would these same suggestions hold true for big straight wall case such as a 45-70? I'd like to load for cowboy shooting, but have a gun I could hunt with too. But to get the velocities down low enough I'm worried I won't have enough powder to ensure proper (safe) ignition.
If Bullseye would work without filler it would be great as that what I planned on using for my .357
Just more info for ya, some is close to what has already been said.
I have a standard plinking load for the kids (9 and 12yrs).
30-30,
9.0 gr Unique with a 1/2' to 3/4" square of polyester quilt bat' in, 150 LRN.
303, and 308,
12.0 gr Unique with a 1/2' to 3/4" square of polyester quilt bat' in, 180 - 220 LRN
43 Mauser, 45-70, 14.5 gr Unique with a 1/2' to 3/4" square of polyester quilt bt' in, (I think) 340gr LRN
I use a Bic pen to push the square down on the powder.
All cheap and easy to shoot for the kids.
Cheers
BMW
I have a standard plinking load for the kids (9 and 12yrs).
30-30,
9.0 gr Unique with a 1/2' to 3/4" square of polyester quilt bat' in, 150 LRN.
303, and 308,
12.0 gr Unique with a 1/2' to 3/4" square of polyester quilt bat' in, 180 - 220 LRN
43 Mauser, 45-70, 14.5 gr Unique with a 1/2' to 3/4" square of polyester quilt bt' in, (I think) 340gr LRN
I use a Bic pen to push the square down on the powder.
All cheap and easy to shoot for the kids.
Cheers
BMW
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I posted an article a bit over a month ago that addresses some issues about reduced loads. So if anyone missed it:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290656
YES there can be significant pressure differences depending on where the powder is in the case when fired. They did the experiment using Unique.
I agree with using a powder like Trail Boss that is designed for light loads and is not (as) position sensitive as some older powders.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290656
YES there can be significant pressure differences depending on where the powder is in the case when fired. They did the experiment using Unique.
I agree with using a powder like Trail Boss that is designed for light loads and is not (as) position sensitive as some older powders.
