Pls help identify this 35 year old Ugartechea (with lots of pic goodness!)

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whimmus

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Hi, all.

I recently acquired a nice spanish SxS 12 guage that was originally purchased new in England in 1971 and made its way over here some time after that. I have no idea what model this is and given the wide range of import uggies and the higher prices of even the entry boxlocks, I'd love to find out just what model this is and its approximate value.

Pics are detailed below. I've masked the latter half of the serial (5 digits) where shown. If anyone can help me, I'd greatly appreaciate it. Images are shown in thumbnail... click for higher res goodness. Thanks!

Zee gun:


Case color & scroll detail:


Under break/hinge:


Top detail:


Under forestock:


Under rearstock:


Barrel stamps (some of these are UK pressure/import/reg/etc stamps, I've been told):


Box/action stamps:


That's what I got. There is a number deep in the hinge in the last picture that's hard to make out. That's '112'.

Cheers!
 
This looks like an Ugartechea Model 30 which is also sold in the U.S. as the Grade 1.

The proof marks are Spanish not British. There is also a maker's mark, gauge, chamber length, barrel weight, bore diameter and choke markings. From a rough calculation this gun looks to be modifed and full although I can't see one of the barrel markings clearly. Here's a link for more info on Spanish proof and makers marks. There is also a list of date stamps so you can determine when your gun was made.

http://personales.jet.es/rafa/b_punzones.html

Putting a value on this gun is difficult without seeing it. From the pictures it looks in good shape but I noted some wood finish wear on the stock and it appears the top lever is maybe a hair to the left. I'd say it's worth $600-$900. Here's a link to a U.S. importer of Ugartcheas for comparison.

http://www.doubleshotguns.com/ugarUC1.htm

Does this gun say "Parker Hale" anywhere on it? Parker Hale imported Ugartecheas into the U.K. for many years and the perception is that PH was more demanding on Ugartechea than some other importers and therefore the guns are generally of a better quality.
 
That's a great example of a pretty nice grouse gun you got there. 2-3/4" chambers, EJECTORS, twin triggers, English style stock. Notice that there are bushings over the firing pins so that they can be easily repaired if ever broken; nice touch. Sorry, I couldn't tell the choking. And it looks to be in pretty nice condition. If you do use it as a grouse gun, open them up to OC/IC and never look back. Well done!
 
Whimmus, you have a fine shotgun there! Go get yourself a copy of Terry Wieland's book "Spanish Best". You will enjoy the read, and it will put this gun in perspective.

I might agree with Claybuster that it is a model 30, but it seems to be an upgraded example. The Model 30 (Grade 1) guns have extractors and (these days) less engraving. Your example looks very nice, the case colours and bluing are in fine shape.

One interesting note - the Basques stamp their barrels with the finished weight, in grams (in your case 1350). This is a very useful practice as one can tell, using only an accurate scale, whether the barrels have been honed or otherwise altered. If you do end up opening up the chokes, it behooves you to stamp the flats with the new weight, to aid future owners in their assessment of the gun.

I would also advise you to take a trip to the patterning board and find out where the gun is shooting for you. In my opinion, SxS guns are more sensitive to gun fit issues than other designs. The flip side of this is that once "dialed in" the SxS offers the fastest, most instinctive gun available.

Congratulations, thanks for sharing the pics and good shooting.

Sharptail
 
Thanks for the replies, guys.

Claybuster: Thanks for the links! I'd seen the double shotguns place, but that stamps list is golden!

The gun has parker hale nowhere on it. On the top of the two barrels near the break are the words: "Ignacio-Ugartechea" (right barrel) and "Eibar" (left). I've been told by the previous owner he may have the original british shotgun certificate for it, which will help a lot. Thing is... it'll be buried.

As for the lever... when the barrel is on and locked, it appears to be dead straight. What impresses me most about the whole gun is the way they've made every part blend to the next, especially over seams. If you closed your eyes and rub a thumb over the base of the lever between the barrels, you'd never know it was several parts.

Grouse Man: I do want to try my hand at upland bird hunting and was hoping I could do it with this gun. The chokes are different, as marked on the barrels, but I don't know what the numbres translate to (17.5 and 17.8, both over 18.5). I took it to a local gun shop and the fellow there told me it was proofed for modern shells, but suggested I not use any of the newer bismuth or tungsten, etc, because they're higher pressure. Steel is right out with these old guns, from what I'm told. The bores are silky smooth.

Sharptail: Thanks for the book tip. Interesting about the barrel weight... I figured that's what it was, but not why. I've read a bit about the patterning board, but I need to really do some research now and figure out what's involved. I understand the concept, but I need to get the actual practical details figured out. But that's ok... just another excuse for an hour's drive up to the backcountry. :)

Cheers all.
 
Sharptail said:
Whimmus, you have a fine shotgun there! Go get yourself a copy of Terry Wieland's book "Spanish Best". You will enjoy the read, and it will put this gun in perspective.

I might agree with Claybuster that it is a model 30, but it seems to be an upgraded example. The Model 30 (Grade 1) guns have extractors and (these days) less engraving. Your example looks very nice, the case colours and bluing are in fine shape.
Click to expand...

I agree that the engraving is better than what is being produced now. I went with Model 30 because it is closer to it than a Model 40 which is slightly more upgraded. The Basques have been reducing the amount of engraving on their lower end guns to keep the price down.

Good recommendation on Spanish Best. Wieland is a friend and I toured the Basque country with him a few years ago. I had the pleasure of meeting Ignacio Ugartechea, touring the operation and being his host for lunch. We had some grand adventures, a few of which are included in the second edition of his book.:)

whimmus said:
The chokes are different, as marked on the barrels, but I don't know what the numbres translate to (17.5 and 17.8, both over 18.5). I took it to a local gun shop and the fellow there told me it was proofed for modern shells, but suggested I not use any of the newer bismuth or tungsten, etc, because they're higher pressure.
Click to expand...

The 18.5 should be the bore measurement in millimeters and the other numbers are the choke constriction in millimeters.

The 900kgs. is the proof pressure. I would disagree with your gun shop proprietor that recommended against bismuth or tungsten. I have a Spanish gun that I've used for waterfowl and tungsten matrix worked well in it and I have would have no hesitation about using Bismuth.
 
Claybuster said:
The 900kgs. is the proof pressure. I would disagree with your gun shop proprietor that recommended against bismuth or tungsten. I have a Spanish gun that I've used for waterfowl and tungsten matrix worked well in it and I have would have no hesitation about using Bismuth.
Click to expand...

Claybuster... this is good to hear. I was thinking something similar myself. If I *do* use any of those tungsten or bisimuth rounds, it will be to hunt and it wont be like a day at the range. If I wanna blow off a few boxes of target loads, I'll take my single shot beater, not this gun. The gun shop fellow was obviously taking a cautious line, which I respect.

How does the 900kg compare with other, modern guns?

Cheers.
 
Very nice sxs......since it's proofed for modern loads why not just simply use lead for Upland? Unless you've Waterfowl too in mind?
 
whimmus said:
How does the 900kg compare with other, modern guns?
Click to expand...
This is a pressure measure and the gun is proofed for any 12 gauge 2-3/4 lead round that is on the market today. I wouldn't shoot steel in it because it might be hard on the barrels and/or the chokes. Tungsten matrix or bismuth wouldn't be a problem.

In my Spanish sxs I've shot several thousand light target loads (1 ounce or 7/8s ounce) and the gun is as tight today as when I first bought in in 2000.
 
Ahsan: I plan to shoot both locally (waterfowl) and also upland stuff, so I wanted to be sure that the gun would be ok with the Tungsten stuff, even if that's only occasionally. It appears that's the case.

Claybuster: I found some similar information earlier today in regards to standard psi ratings for 2 3/4 rounds and it said pretty much what you just did. :) Good to hear these spanish guns can hold up... this one certainly 'feels' very well built and hasn't seen too many rounds through it.

Cheers.
 
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