pls recommend the hest .308 for me, money is no object

Ian Sa

Ian Sa

CGN Regular
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Location
Toronto
Money is always an object, but I got a recent winfall and want to buy a fantasy rifle.
My preference would be a 308, semi auto (with pistol mag option), in a bullpup.

My fantasy rifle should be able to complete in PRS but also be light enough to carry through the bush hunting.
And it should be small enough that I can hide it from my wife (bullpup's work well here).

I get that small/light/accurate are all opposing ideas. And I'm shooting Hirtenberger as my practice ammo (while it seems like decent surplus it's not match grade).

I considered the Keltec RFB with a 24" barrel. Or the ATRS Modern Hunter. There is also Stag10 or BCL102.
All supposed to be great firearms but no one has the perfect combo. What to give up?

I will be buying one rifle with my cash winfall to have for the rest of my life. Can you guys tell me what you would do?

ps I intend to mount my newly purchased swarovski ds 5-25 on top
 
If you want precision, I would scrap the semi auto requirement. Neither the Keltec RFB or the ATRS will be competitive in PRS.

If you have to have a bull pup, then the Desert Tech SRS may be your huckleberry. Won't work great for PRS due to the ergonomics, some stages will definitely be a struggle, but overall doable.

Another option, would be the custom route. If light and precision is the ultimate goal, I would have Insite Arms build you a rifle, utilizing a Mack bros titanium action, Hardy carbon fiber barrel, and a carbon fiber manners or McMillan stock. It will certainly be light and precise. Give them a call, they can talk you through some awesome build recommendations.

What cartridge are you planning on building with? Is it going to be more of a hunter or a PRS type rifle? You are going to have to make some compromises. I would make a list that prioritizes what you want to achieve, so we (CGN) can figure what compromises would be acceptable to get you the best rifle for your needs.

Edit: I see you stated .308 in your thread title, so ignore my cartridge question.
 
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Like kthomas said, if you want to compete in PRS then there isn't any semi auto bullpup I know that we can get here that will do that. The RFB is no precision rifle. The ARTS or the Stag 10 might get you to precision status with a custom barrel.
 
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Test group before sending it to customer

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Another customer just sent some feedback on his build. There is no reason an AR type rifle can't be made accurate. This one was smacking steel at 1200yds.

Both are in 6.5 CM.

Is the semi platform ideal for LR precision work? depends on your likes and the game....

Send me a pm or email if you want to discuss...

Jerry
 

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Sure, they can produce decent groups, especially if you cherry pick the good ones. But on average, the majority of groups from a good semi auto, like an ATRS, is pretty lack luster when compared to a top end precision bolt rifle.

One of the biggest issues with the semi autos is how difficult it is to drive them. Your fundamentals need to be spot on, and they will exploit any weakness in your fundamentals. Even if the system itself is accurate, it is very hard to drive them with consistent top precision from shot to shot. And that's prone or from bench - even more difficult when shooting from a compromised position such as a barricade.

There's a reason why you don't see any semi autos being competitive against bolt guns in comps (PRS, NRL, benchrest, etc). PRS had to make a separate league for the semi auto shooters, to make semi auto shooters feel competitive.

Another downside is that they are really heavy - no bueno if you want a light rifle. You have a few objectives competing with each other - would be best for you to narrow down what exactly you are looking for. Perhaps a "precision" semi-auto will fit the bill, but perhaps not.
 
kthomas said:
Sure, they can produce decent groups, especially if you cherry pick the good ones. But on average, the majority of groups from a good semi auto, like an ATRS, is pretty lack luster when compared to a top end precision bolt rifle.

One of the biggest issues with the semi autos is how difficult it is to drive them. Your fundamentals need to be spot on, and they will exploit any weakness in your fundamentals. Even if the system itself is accurate, it is very hard to drive them with consistent top precision from shot to shot.

There's a reason why you don't see any semi autos being competitive against bolt guns in comps (PRS, NRL, benchrest, etc). PRS had to make a separate league for the semi auto shooters, to make semi auto shooters feel competitive.

Another downside is that they are really heavy - no bueno if you want a light rifle.
Click to expand...

We have a few folks competing and holding their own very well using Modern Hunters and Varmints in F Class and PRS so it CAN be done.
Your second posting that I am quoting I agree with 100% up to the part on weight. A Hunter can be built as light as 8lbs without sacrificing accuracy in any way, but like in any go fast sport, the cost goes up as the weight goes down.
 
FNAR competition! Based off of Browning's BAR design but designed for competition. FN is so bode as to claim that it is the "most accurate semi automatic rifle ever built". I personally like the blue stock but it comes in black and with a pistol grip if so desired. There are legal 10 round mags for it and for under $2k, I am taking a hard look at picking up one.
 
Garaldtao said:
FNAR competition! Based off of Browning's BAR design but designed for competition. FN is so bode as to claim that it is the "most accurate semi automatic rifle ever built". I personally like the blue stock but it comes in black and with a pistol grip if so desired. There are legal 10 round mags for it and for under $2k, I am taking a hard look at picking up one.
Click to expand...

Are you sure about the 10 round mags? I had one and all of my mags were pinned to 5 rounds. As far as I know the mags are proprietary. There's no pistol version so they're limited to 5 rounds.
 
thx to all for the info. A few comments...

I own a DTA SRS covert (previous cash winfall). I love it and it is my PRS rifle now. But it is a bench shooter and isn't well suited for hunting.
I do love the bullpup design and the bolt is quick. I was kind of hoping a semi would be close to it in accuracy (thinking Modern Hunter) without the distraction of cycling the bolt on follow ups.
There is no reason for wanting a 10 round pistol mag other than I want it. Same goes for bullpup design.
As you all said, I have to prioritize what I will give up. I would say weight could go first. And bullpup design (just no good options here) is second.
Those Mystic Precision targets are very inspiring. I'm in Ontario so getting shots past 500m is difficult, and 6.5CM is a barrel burner. But I"ll call you tomorrow to see if there is a middle ground here.
I did notice the FNAR competition and I like the blue stock. But the proprietary mags are a deal killler. Are you sure there is a pistol mag option for these?
 
FYI, the 6.5 CM is not a barrel burner when run through an AR10 and what the gas system is designed for. That test group is the start load ... 1st group, 5 through the same hole, didn't bother shooting the next step.

At SAAMI spec pressures, you will see 2000 to 2500rds as typical life in a 6.5 CM. At reduced loads, you might break 3k. No different then a 308 loaded to where it typically likes to shoot.

Remember the CM case is smaller then a 308's and you are using less powder.

As an accurate rd and ease of use, I really like the 6.5 CM in the AR10'ish type rifles. I can see why the US forces are getting on board with 6.5 CMs

Jerry
 
As you've realized, there aren't many .308 bullpup semi options up here (RFB and Tavor 7, soon, I think) and none of them would be considered "precision" rifles.

Your best option for a precision semi here in Canada that you plan on hunting with at all (and hence must be NR) is to build up a Stag-10 with the components/barrel of your choice. You could do the same with a BCL-102 but why anyone would want to roll the dice on their ####ty QC when you can just get a Stag receiver set is beyond me. The mechanical accuracy potential of any "AR" type rifle really comes down to having a quality barrel so pick a good one and if you can drive it well, you'll get good results.

As for semis in PRS/NRL, I've only ever seen a few guys run them in national level matches and never do all that well. I'd say certainly no one in the top 25% would be running a semi. If you want to do it, fill your boots, just understand that it's less than ideal. Hell, I might run the Stag I'm building in local matches on occasion. You're better off just running your DTA since you like it already. If you want a rifle that is actually optimized for PRS-type matches, there's a pretty easy solution these days: get a heavy profile (M40, MTU, etc) barrel spun up for you by a high end smith (like Insite) and installed on a custom action (think Defiance, etc) with a nice light trigger in a chassis designed from the ground up for that kind of shooting (think MDT ACC). There's a reason most rifles you see at matches are quite similar, there's a recipe that just works.

As far as caliber, .308 is a good call since you plan on being 500m and in. Nothing wrong with a 6.5 Creedmoor either though. In fact it's performance is better in every way comparatively to a .308. Sure barrel life is shorter but I'd hardly call it a barrel burner. You're more than likely to get about 3000 rds out of it. Unless you're a high volume shooter (and most here aren't) you might want to benefit from the improved ballistics. Food for thought anyways.
 
If it has to be bullpup... Maybe have a look at the AMP DSR-1

AMP_DSR-1_Koalorka.jpg
 
Mystic Precision said:
FYI, the 6.5 CM is not a barrel burner when run through an AR10 and what the gas system is designed for. That test group is the start load ... 1st group, 5 through the same hole, didn't bother shooting the next step.

At SAAMI spec pressures, you will see 2000 to 2500rds as typical life in a 6.5 CM. At reduced loads, you might break 3k. No different then a 308 loaded to where it typically likes to shoot.

Remember the CM case is smaller then a 308's and you are using less powder.

As an accurate rd and ease of use, I really like the 6.5 CM in the AR10'ish type rifles. I can see why the US forces are getting on board with 6.5 CMs

Jerry
Click to expand...

Jerry, the 6.5 CM and the .308 have the same barrel life?
 
Buster95 said:
Jerry, the 6.5 CM and the .308 have the same barrel life?
Click to expand...

Yes and no. It all depends on a few things. How many shots in each string? How hot are they loaded? What is the projectile weight? What is the barrel made of? Chromemoly barrels have a longer life but 416r stainless is more accurate. Is it button rifled or cut rifled? I've seen 6.5 creedmoor shot out in 800 rounds and others last 2000. Also what is your acceptable level of accuracy? When groups open up and cleaning doesnt fix it its shot out to me.
 
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