Polish MSBS Grot review in Ukraine

Horilka

Horilka

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Some Ukrainian units got MSBS Grot (thank you Poland, and all Polish people), so here's very detailed review of military version. Civilian version will be coming after military orders are fulfilled.

Review is in Ukrainian, however you can enable subtitles and auto-translation to English. Anyway, there's a lot to see.

 
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Looks like the charging handle mech allows sand to seep in to the BCG channel. The trapezoidal receiver and Bolt carrier doesn't help.

The semi auto sporter has been selling in Poland for years, since couple years ago.

Can't remember the price, but it wasn't cheap so basically the price of Bren 2. For the price of Bren 2, I know what I am buying!

More interested in the ZMT MWS myself.
 
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That's brutal and needs to be fixed. I heard Polish army had 50 or so of them. I guess with number that low they are just getting acquainted with platform.
 
Horilka said:
That's brutal and needs to be fixed. I heard Polish army had 50 or so of them. I guess with number that low they are just getting acquainted with platform.
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The polish MOD bought 15,000 or 18,000 ish for their Territorial Defence force. It was controversial in the beginning as Radom has some quality control issue. BGC failure and plastic cracking, gas system rusting because it is not chromed, etc. These things can be fixed, but this may mean another iteration perhaps MSBS GROT A2 down the road.

That's why ZMT, interesting enough Radom and ZMT are owned by the same parent company, is developing a competition against MSBS in both 5.56 and 7.62 DMR.

The ZMT MWS design is much more like the SCAR and Bren 2 - they are proven design. The Remington ACR did not do well in the US army AC according to internet gossip, so copying winning and proven design seem to be a better path to success. Looks like the MSBS Grot inherit some weak points of ACR that they don't need, like the little fixture to align the gas push rod. Since the GROT doesn't have a QD barrel, they should not need that like all the push rod guns out there.
 
There was a hidden agenda to the negative review of Grot.

https://www.overtdefense.com/2021/0...-causes-national-security-concerns-in-poland/

If interested, read above link which will shed light on the issue but in short…German is largest weapons exporter in Europe and Poland is an emerging power in weapons export which threatens German’s profits. Germany with its owned media in Poland tried to and still does curb or even stop Poland’s products from being exported world wide. They are playing dirty games and lie in order to save their weapons export. German quality is not what it used to be and countries are starting to look elsewhere for weapons.

This explanation is in a nutshell, and hopefully will explain the issue.
 
I still see significant amount of these rifles in service and mostly with units on front lines. This proves that rifle is not that bad how it was claimed by videos above. And on the front lines one has a variety of rifles to choose from.
 
If this ever ends up on our civilian market, I'll be grabbing one or two. I loved the ACR, and this (now that I've watched the whole video) really does look like a product-improved version of that.
 
Another feedback about Grot from frontlines from Israeli volunteers unit. The guy is very happy and likes it a lot. Cideo of being used and comments of other users.
From other discussions I see that several batches made to Ukraine and there was a batch of heavily used one (in military trials in Poland?), referred as Gen 1 and many complaining about these "heavily used ones". SO I assume Gen 2 also made to Ukraine because there are also pictures of brand new ones and there are positive feedback.

"Many ppl asked me how the performance of the MSBS GROT���� and saying that a lot of experts tells that the gun have a issues with feeding and bolt cracking.
I didn't encounter those issues nor other members in my team"

"The only feeding issue i did notice is when the lips of the mag is damaged then it might happen, but its in any weapon platform overall.
I love the gun balance and ergonomics and accuracy.
I am talking only from my personal experience and of my friends."

https://twitter.com/11Knuk123/status/1628370618092556288
 
valczer said:
There was a hidden agenda to the negative review of Grot.

https://www.overtdefense.com/2021/0...-causes-national-security-concerns-in-poland/

If interested, read above link which will shed light on the issue but in short…German is largest weapons exporter in Europe and Poland is an emerging power in weapons export which threatens German’s profits. Germany with its owned media in Poland tried to and still does curb or even stop Poland’s products from being exported world wide. They are playing dirty games and lie in order to save their weapons export. German quality is not what it used to be and countries are starting to look elsewhere for weapons.

This explanation is in a nutshell, and hopefully will explain the issue.
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I'm absolutely traumatized by H&K guns... I've seen them all their worst... the jams on a dead MP5... their bolt system, when it dies... the jams are unlike anything you've ever seen... and the HK243 (civilian version of the G36)... what an awful gun... it's a giant, heavy, blocky, clunky thing, that shoots .223. NOTHING about it is better in any way to even an M16A1...

THESE came out of an HK33 one day...

r40sm1v.jpeg


Oh and those Haenels... I hate them... loudest gun we had (even louder than a PKM or SG43) it rattles your brain (maybe approaching TBI territory?), even standing behind it (it was worse for those watching, than the shooter), and every person that fired it, wanted to mag dump... and the feel of the gun... it's just covered in SO MANY things that want to snag on you... just awful! An M16A1 or C7A2, is just so smooth and sleek...

Oh god... and then there's the Walther P99... most f***ed trigger I've ever seen... but we all know why it's there, "to keep Officer RoidRage from giving some random person the "Sammy Yatim" Treatment"...

So yeah, I really don't like what is coming out of Germany these days...

Anyways, Poland is gearing up to give the Germans a run for there money, with all deals they made with South Korea to start producing hardware in Poland for the European market.

One thing about the GROT... we were zeroing a new GROT one day, and I guess when the guys handed it to me for my turn, I guess I accidentally hit the selector switch to "full fun", so I got a little surprise when I pulled the trigger...

The positions on the selector are at 45 and 90 degrees, instead of 90 and 180 for an M16...
 
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Unit of scouts in UA has Grot as their weapon of choice. (Maybe TDF and not army?)

Follow the link if you want to read their recent battle description (in Eng), there's nothing about Grot there, except the fact they had successfully eliminated a number of Moscovites infantry on this mission. I'm just posting pictures here to follow Grot history in Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/TreasChest/status/1635414550089531395

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FrIo5nzXwAAngMd
 
dinner?


Horilka said:
Unit of scouts in UA has Grot as their weapon of choice. (Maybe TDF and not army?)

Follow the link if you want to read their recent battle description (in Eng), there's nothing about Grot there, except the fact they had successfully eliminated a number of Moscovites infantry on this mission. I'm just posting pictures here to follow Grot history in Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/TreasChest/status/1635414550089531395

FrIo3SaWwAAO5rM


FrIo3SZXsAArP7v


FrIo5nzXsAUSlsk


FrIo5nzXoAAOd0l


FrIo5nzXwAAngMd
Click to expand...
 
C21 only prohibits any semi designed before the date of the law IIRC. So Grot is fine but it is probably more of an issue of actually getting any. The semi version has been for sale in Poland and the EU awhile ago.

Someone tried some years ago but nothing heard.
 
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