Polishing/Lapping bore

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I have a Remington 22-250 and it does not take many shots to get alot of copper fouling in the bore. It is more difficult to get the bore clean compared to other guns. Is it possible to polish/lap a bore with somthing like flitz or some other compound? When you hear of custom barrels that are "hand lapped" is this what they are refering to? The gun has over 200 rounds through it.

Thanks.
 
Yes, there are some excellent products to do what you are asking for.

I use the JB bore bright to do most of the polishing followed up by reg JB for a blinding bright finish. You will not be removing a bunch of material. You are polishing, that's about it. I think the bore bright is jewellers rouge.

Just follow the instructions. Very easy to use.

For very badly pitted and rough bores, you can also use 'grit' lapping compounds. I have started with 400 and 600 but you have to be very careful and use sparingly as you will remove material. You are trying to take any above surface rough spots down not actually lap the bore as a barrel maker might.

for barrel lapping, you will need to make a lead plug. Not a good idea as this will open up the bore which can lead to other issues. The JB process has solved almost every issue I have had with rough bores. On severe cases, I have used the grit just to smooth then to the JB stuff to finish. If the bore is so bad that I feel the need to lead plug lap, time for a new barrel.

Jerry
 
Sounds like your looking for the NECO fire lapping kit. They are available but are not inexpensive. Merrill Martin had done a fair amount of writing on the subject for precision shooting. If I'm not mistaken, Neco worked with Merrill Martin.

Joe
www.################.com

PS - we also stock JB bore cleaning compounds...
 
If you like give Tinknee a pm. He has a few kits.

Regards,

Joe
www.################.com
 
Thaks for the replies. I wil try the JB product. Then if I don't get good results I will try the fire lapping.
 
Fire lapping can drasticly increase throat size, much faster than it smoothes and increases bore size. If jb's is to slow for you, Brownells sells a 800 grit NON-IMBEDDING lapping compound that polishes much faster than JB'S.
 
buckbrush said:
Fire lapping can drasticly increase throat size, much faster than it smoothes and increases bore size. If jb's is to slow for you, Brownells sells a 800 grit NON-IMBEDDING lapping compound that polishes much faster than JB'S.


This is a bit much. Firelapping is proven technology and the degree of lapping is dependent on more then just a blanket statement.

Original bore size, slugs used (size and composition), grit size and type.

Obviously you are talking about "AN EXTREME"

Just a note to set the idea straight...
 
### International said:
This is a bit much. Firelapping is proven technology and the degree of lapping is dependent on more then just a blanket statement.

Original bore size, slugs used (size and composition), grit size and type.

Obviously you are talking about "AN EXTREME"

Just a note to set the idea straight...

Do a chamber cast, measure your throat dia., before you try fire lapping. Do the fire lapping, clean chamber and do another chamber cast.
 
The Tubbs system is fire lapping.

The results I have seen indicate that this form of lapping works best to smooth out the first 1/2 of the bore. It can move the throat forward if used too aggressively. Can this lead to a larger bore in the first half of the barrel?

In general, as long as there are no above surface rough spots, machine marks will not affect accuracy. Some bores may look and have a lot of copper fouling but that alone does not mean an inaccurate barrel. For these barrels, I hand lap and leave as is. I have found moly to really help in these situations.

Without the proper process, there is a bigger chance of uneven lapping which leads to more problems then a bit of copper down the pipe.

Jerry
 
I just spent an hour running patches of JB through my 300. The barrel got some snow in it last fall after my moose was down. I didn't notice it and when I cleaned it a couple of days later...ferrous-f*cking-oxide. Trying to clean up that roughish spot.

Just realized that I'm out of G96 though so I had best stop playing with my guns or I won't have anything to wipe them off with.
 
J.B. Bore Paste is for cleaning copper from barrels.
It is abrasive to copper, not to steel.
It is not a lapping compound.
It will not polish steel.
 
I've done firelapping using cast bullets, Clover non-embedding compound, and the techniques described in a booklet put out by Beartoothbullets.com. They explain in great detail how to do it right. Improved accuracy is a common result. When firelapping there are many ways to screw it up.
 
mmmmmmmmm

heres something l found quite a while ago about jb on one site ,how much merrit is in it l dont know for sure ?,quote gale mcmillan when someone uses jb on one of my rifles l void the warrantee! for two reasons.it dimensionally alters the barrel and not evenly,and the second reason is the barrel maker laps the barrel with a grit of lapping compound that is most effective in preventing metal fouling.then a customer polishes that finnish away with jb,l ,wouldnt be opposed to it if it were applied to a lead lap and very sparingly.it is very obvious when you look at a barrel with a bore scopes all the sharp edges are worn off the rifling.if it has jb used on it on a regular basis.as you know it is a n abrasive of about 1000 grit.as for using it on factory barrels,l will say that while it is difficult to hurt a production barrel,the thing that hurts a match barrel will do the same to a factory barrel,
 
bullcoon said:
heres something l found quite a while ago about jb on one site ,how much merrit is in it l dont know for sure ?,quote gale mcmillan when someone uses jb on one of my rifles l void the warrantee! for two reasons.it dimensionally alters the barrel and not evenly,and the second reason is the barrel maker laps the barrel with a grit of lapping compound that is most effective in preventing metal fouling.then a customer polishes that finnish away with jb,l ,wouldnt be opposed to it if it were applied to a lead lap and very sparingly.it is very obvious when you look at a barrel with a bore scopes all the sharp edges are worn off the rifling.if it has jb used on it on a regular basis.as you know it is a n abrasive of about 1000 grit.as for using it on factory barrels,l will say that while it is difficult to hurt a production barrel,the thing that hurts a match barrel will do the same to a factory barrel,

This has been hashed about by Benchrest shooters for decades. The general concenus I believe is JB is not abrasive to steel but in using it proper procedures should alos be used. A good bore guide, a quality rod, etc... the method used or not used can cause more damage than JB.

Custom barrels do not have the copper fouling problems that some factory barrels have.

Lilja states:

Periodic cleaning

It is probably a good idea to use a strong copper removing solvent every 200 rounds, or so, to check the barrel for copper fouling. We do not recommend the routine use of abrasive cleaners for normal cleaning. However they can be used every 500-1000 rounds to remove the carbon build-up (caused by powder fouling) in the throat area of the barrel. To use, wrap a cotton patch around a worn out brush or a cleaning jag and liberally apply the abrasive cleaner to the patch. Short stroke the abrasive for 6" or so in the throat area and one or two full length passes through the barrel. Do not clean the barrel like this for more than 1-2 minutes.
Suggested equipment and solvents

It is important to use an action rod guide when cleaning. The guide aligns the rod with the bore and helps prevent uneven wear in the throat area. Be careful not to raise the handle end of the rod while stroking. This will put a "belly" in the rod that will wear the barrel. We suggest that plastic coated rods, like the Dewey and Parker-Hale, be used.

Our preferred cleaning solvent is Butch's Bore Shine made by BBS Industries (406-652-2495). This solvent is excellent at attacking both powder and copper fouling. We recommend it for both break-in and regular cleaning.

For occasional use only, abrasives like J-B paste, Flitz, or RemClean can be used.

Do not use a stainless steel brush in your barrel under any circumstances.

Do not apply a strong copper remover, like Sweets, on a bronze brush. It will ruin the brush and give the false indication that the barrel has copper in it.

For shooters wishing to use moly-coated bullets we do not recommend shooting more than 25 rounds or so without using the normal cleaning procedure outlined above.
 
BUM, just flush the bore with WD40 and swab with soaked patches. That is whole point of the NON EMBEDDING part of JB. It comes out very easily.

Ah, the wonders of a bore scope. Makes small problems look like BIG problems.

Anyone who can wear a barrel using JB has arms like Arnie and probably should have stopped a few days back. This stuff is slightly more gritty then toothpaste.

The bore bright looks like jewelers rouge. More agressive but still a very fine grit. I doubt that this stuff is 1000 grit, probably more like 1500.

The goal is not to lap the bore. The goal is to knock off the high spots or remove ABOVE surface fouling. Doesn't take long to do that. If longer or more agressive grits are needed, the bore is basically pooched.

The right tool used in the wrong way rarely leads to a successful job.
Jerry
 
I have used a Wheeler Lapping kit I got from Doug Rayner at Rayner Shine in Saskatchewan. As I recall it was reasonably priced and it has been useful on a couple of milsurp bores where I could feel roughness when running a patch through. The finest grit in the kit is 600 and aside from one bore (on an old Martini-Enfield .303, where I used the 400 grit but which turned out to be unsalvageable), I have only used this grit, with low-power loads and cast bullets. I cannot imagine any bore needing/surviving the 230 grit!

I can't speak from experience but I would think that any "fine rifle" might be better tackled with JB if it was felt that smoothness was an issue. Even 600 grit might be a bit harsh on an otherwise good factory bore. And once the metal is gone, it's GONE!

:) Stuart
 
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