Poor patterns with standard velocity

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Freefall

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I've been having a strange problem with my savage .22 btvss. When I first purchased the rifle it shot excellent with cci standard velocity. All manor of cci bullets shot fantastic in fact. With ammo being scarce I couldn't always find it though and experimented with other bullets.

I once bought some Peterson bullets because they looked fantastic, but it was a disaster. I didn't know at the time they are just rebranded thunderbolts. At 50 yards with a scope and bipod they started spraying all over the paper emediately. Took me two aggressive cleaning sessions with shards of lead coming out the first one to get the barrel shooting nicely again.

No big deal live and learn.

Two years later I've been shooting mostly Blazers with good results. A friend of mine and I have friendly contests and he's been having great results with cci standard velocity in his 10/22. Knowing standard velocity is supposed to be a bit more accurate I decided to get some myself again.

At 50 yards the cci standard velocity was all over the paper. Thinking maybe my gun just didn't like that ammo or maybe it was a bad batch I tried some federal match target which is about the same velocity. It was all over the paper too. At this point I though maybe my barrel was too fouled up or something but just for science I decided to try some cci Blazers.

They shot fantastic.

I understand .22s are often ammo fussy, but the Blazers and standard velocity look identical, are both cci with the same bullet lube. The Blazers shoot a tight group within a inch no problem if I'm good but the sv is all over the paper.

I didn't think the barrel was that dirty but I aggressively cleaned it anyway, it took me a long time. Tried the sv again yesterday and it was a bit better but still not good.

Why might my gun not like standard velocity anymore? How can Blazers be a tight group and sv can't even keep all the shots on the paper?

Sorry for the wordiness
 
I have the same gun.
Imo it might be a bad batch. However is it possble you damaged the crown? How many round total have you put though the btvs?
Im near 5k iirc. Still shoots like a laser beam.
Was the temp or wind a factor? New scope?
Just listing off the normal stuff.
Like everyone says, after cleaning, group size will be effected and should settle down after the barrel is shot abit.
Have you tried CCI mini mag or other midline ammo?
 
Visibly the crown appears undamaged and I don't know of anything I did that would have done it. I sure hope it isn't that.

I'd guess I've shot about 1500 or less.

The temperature was about -4. It was windy, but that didn't bother the Blazers or my friends rifle shooting the sv.

I have some minimags I could try but with the Blazers shooting great I didn't see a benefit to comparing them.

It seems only low velocity ammo is suffering.
 
After a thorough cleaning I shot 40 rounds. Its hard to be precise because I was shooting at about 35 yards as apposed to a measured 50 yards, but taking that into account I would guess it was about 35% better after cleaning and shooting 25 rounds. Still quite a spread.


Is it possible to get lead in the barrel that persists after several cleanings with a brass brush?
 
I have one that prefers hv ammo for some reason, and i have lots of sv target type. I cleaned it and started over and seems to be doing ok with a batch of RWS champ edition. They all seem to be different.

I cleaned and shot 25 at 30yrds to relube/foul up/practice/check zero and then 5 groups of 5 at 50 for accuracy, that takes care of a box. Will run a couple more boxes to confirm later on.
 
Two types of sv ammo is not a good representation of sv ammo performance. Batches or lots of a brand as well as a brand and type of ammo can have an effect on performance. Depending on your depth of pocket try as many brands and types as you can to see what the rifle likes best. Consistent performance cannot be expected from different lot #s of a same brand and type.

Your experience is not untypical with many rimfires. When you test your ammo ensure that the conditions of testing are consistent ie(barrel cleaning, rifle support and any other equipment, distance you shoot) If you start with a clean barrel for a type, be sure to clean for all types you try. All due respect to your group discriptions but "all over the page" doesn't really say much. A newspaper page , an 8.5x11 page or a 2x4 notebook page. You have to develop a standard of testing that satisfies you and that is a fair try of the gun/ammo combination.
 
All good points.

I guess my reason for feeling the need to ask advice which I guess I didn't really make clear was that the CCI Standard Velocity and the Federal Target Gold Medal were both so wildly inaccurate that it was beyond what I would guess is normal for variation from ammo type to ammo type, and I am worried there is something wrong with my rifle. I am new to rimfire shooting so I don't know if that is normal or not.

Also the CCI SV shot excellent when I first bought the rifle.

When I say all over the page I mean a large 14 x 18 target at 50 meters. Its so frustrating to look at the crosshairs dead center and watch a whole appear somewhere completely random on the page, shot after shot.
 
I doubt you messed up the crown or it would shoot badly with the Blazer as well as the SV and other brands.

It may be that the surface in the bore has been changed by the shooting and cleaning you've done and the new condition simply prefers the Blazer.

There's no doubt that cleaning and shooting does change the surface finish in the bore. I've had two rimfire guns which tended to lead up badly when first new. Needless to say this required cleaning to get the lead out. But with those cleanings and further shooting both responded with less leading up and after a couple of cleanings and a few hundred rounds shot through them they no longer lead up at all with any ammo. And that means that the interior had to be altered in some way.

Likely this is the case with your Savage.
 
From the Lilja Site:
It is possible however to have an accumulation of fouling in the leade area in front of the chamber. A build up here is detrimental to top accuracy.
We suggest cleaning in the following manner. After approximately 100 rounds push a dry loose patch through the barrel from the breach end. This pushes out loose fouling. Then take a tighter dry patch and work it back and forth about 10 times in the leade area, pushing it out of the barrel at the muzzle end when finished.
Every 200-300 rounds a loose (worn out) 22 caliber bronze brush, wet with solvent, should be worked back and forth in the leade area with short strokes and withdrawn from the chamber end. If there is any evidence of lead in the barrel then brushing the full length of the barrel with solvent is suggested.
Match quality bullets have a wax coating on them that aids accuracy. It may take 10-50 shots to “lay” a good coating of it down in the barrel and using solvents will only remove this desirable wax coating.
Users of the 10/22-type semi-auto barrels may have to remove the accumulated powder fouling buildup that forms on the breach end of the barrel. Extraction problems may result eventually unless solvent is used on this type of fouling.
The solvent we use and recommend for our barrels is Butch’s Bore Shine.

After reading that consider other theories I have read>
Never use a bore snake.
Never reverse a bronze brush.

That being said, Anschutz uses a bronze brush but they push it through and take it off after exiting the muzzle, withdraw the rod and reattach the brush to be pushed through breach to muzzle again.
The Long Range Pursuit Davidsons use a nylon brush as it can be reversed without breaking the bristles off. Some time ago I used that method to scrub my lead.

I have used Hoppe's in the past but have been using Butch's and Kroil recently.

Nothing is definitive!!!
 
I'd try some other SV ammo before drawing any conclusions. Why not try some SK Standard Plus, which is low cost match grade ammo. It should give you a fighting chance to see more clearly how your rifle is shooting.
 
I have the same rifle and have found it doesn't like ANY ammunition but Lapua and Winchester Dynapoint GT's (for some reason). CCI SV, CCI Green Tag, Federal SV, Mini Mags, Blazer, AE, Win 555, Stinger, Veloctiors, CCI Quiet, Federal Bulk Pack, Federal Gold Medal. None of this shoots overly well in this rifle (0.75 to 1 inch). The Lapua stuff shoots close to .5 inches at 50 yards with the odd flier her and there. I have probably 3,000 rounds down the pipe and I haven't cleaned it once. 2,800 rounds were Lapua most likely.

Maybe I should clean it?
 
Might seem like a strange question... but what was the temperature outside when you were shooting?

I ask because the benefit of standard velocity (around the 1050 to 1080 fps area) is that the bullet doesn't go supersonic when leaving the muzzle and therefore does not de-stabilize in flight when slowing down through transonic velocities and breaking back down through the sound barrier.

When the temp is cold enough (below zero celcius) the speed of sound is close to the muzzle velocities of the CCI SV and they might be leaving the barrel supersonic and having the above-mentioned problem. The blazers are fast enough that they stay supersonic at 50 yards and don't de-stabilize.

Just a thought. Might be nothing...
 
grauhanen said:
I'd try some other SV ammo before drawing any conclusions. Why not try some SK Standard Plus, which is low cost match grade ammo. It should give you a fighting chance to see more clearly how your rifle is shooting.
Click to expand...

X2 my savages all preferred the sk standard plus, every thing else was so so, even the real pricey ammo.
 
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