Portuguese 1904 DMGLM Rifles Survey

Nabs

Nabs

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Hello CGN,

I am conducting a research survey into surviving examples of the Portuguese model of 1904 rifles that were in Portuguese East Africa and marked "D.M.G.L.M". Since there is virtually no information on these rifles, and their history, I thought I would take the initiative and see if we can contribute to the domain of historical knowledge and, perhaps, make some new conclusions about these very interesting pieces. My overall goal is to have this information remain public and be available to anyone who wishes to learn more about their rifle.

To facilitate the survey, I have started a thread over at Gunboards (Click here for link). I plan on updating the survey as new information and time permits. If you are in possession of a D.M.G.L.M rifle, and wish to have your rifle included, simply post on Gunboards with the requested information, and I will add it to the list. Don't forget to share some pictures of your prized rifle so we can all enjoy.

Thank you to all who wish to participate, with your help, we can shed some light on a unique piece of military firearm's history.

Edit: If you do not wish to sign up for Gunboards, you are more than welcome to send the information to me via private message or post here. If you wish to share the pictures of your rifle on the research thread, you can also share those with me and I can post them on your behalf along with an analysis of the rifle.
 
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Don't have the numbers handy as I'm out of town at the moment but I can provide serial numbers for two at some point when I get home. They are some of my all time favourite military surplus rifles. An absolute joy to handle and shoot.
 
That is great to hear, the more we can get in the survey, the better :).

I will be taking mine out shooting shortly and I am curious what load you used for comparison ?
 
I’m add mine to the survey tomorrow, I’m glad to see I’m not the only one with no serial number in the standard place, I once called the RCMP to verify it wasn’t stolen because of it.
 
Good luck with the survey. I seem to recall there was something similar on one of the South African collector club websites about 10 years ago.

Out of interest some of these rifles ended up in British service in the Great War. They are listed as having been inspected at Enfield, in a file at the National archives in London. The file had a long and detailed list of pistols and rifles that were so inspected. The list included Arisaka rifles. However, I do not expect to see an Enfield inspection marked Model 1904 as the Arisakas were not marked either, although there are plenty around with regimental markings on the tang. Further evidence of issue was a photo of a diary on the Great War Forum detailing noting how the Model 1904's were being replaced with .303 rifles. So they did see British service as well as South African.

Regards

AlanD
Sydney
 
Hey gents,

Thanks for the assistance, I already have one early submission and looking at the pictures, which I hope to post soon with the owner's permission, there are already some tell tale differences between his rifle and mine. For instance, his does not have the "Circle P" mark and the "DMGLM" mark is stamped very high on the right hand side of the stock.

Alan, you are correct, there is documented evidence these rifles did serve with South African forces against the Schutztruppen in German South West Africa. I have seen one example of a former "UDF" rifle that was tastefully turned into a sporter but still in the original 6.5 caliber. I am waiting for my registration on some South Africa gun forums to be approved in order to inquire there as well to see how the "UDF" examples differ from the "DMGLM" ones.
 
Nabs said:
That is great to hear, the more we can get in the survey, the better :).

I will be taking mine out shooting shortly and I am curious what load you used for comparison ?
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Ive used loading data for the 6.5x57 as well as data for the 6.5x55 in my rifles.Seems to work ok for me although I am far from an expert marksman.
 
Ok here we go, my first 1904 6.5x58 with DMGLM marking was serial number A5957 with non matching bolt. I no longer own this rifle and it went to Ellwood Epps along with a few other milsurps I foolishly sold in around 2003 or 2004. Maybe someone here in our community has this one.
My second one I bought last year from a gunshop in Waterloo but don't have the serial number handy as we are in the midst of a long distance move and everything is still cacooned for lack of a better word.
My first example had been well used but still had a decent bore and shot ok by my standards. My more recent example is in much better condition with a fair amount of cosmo under the action/stockline and very nice bluing remaining on most surfaces. A really nice example in my opinion, I'll see about snapping a few pictures of that one when it comes out of hiding.
I'd also like to add that I also owned an absolutely pristine arsenal rebuilt 1904/39 in 8x57 cal., just gorgeous but again like a few other milsurp gems I owned I foolishly sold it off as well. Not doing that anymore.
 
I know the feeling of regret when you sell a particular milsurp only to wish you had it a month or two later. I actually don't have any experience with the M904/39 in 8mm but now that I have had the chance to become more familiar with the 6.5 variant, I'm keeping my eye out for one.

I would love to see pics of your 6.5 Vergueiro and the 8mm one, these are uncommon ladies that should be brought out into the light :).
 
Hello everyone,

I wanted to mention I made some updates with regards to the table and rifle #1973 as the owner shared some more pictures of the markings. I also wanted to say that I signed up on a South African gun forum and I will be inquiring about any DMGLM marked examples there as well as looking into any Union of South Africa marked rifles to see if we have any similarities for contract markings and serial number ranges. I will post back with anything I find out.
 
Going of memory here:
Many of the 1904’s that saw service in SWA with the UDF troops were given to them as a thank you for their service at the conclusion of the campaign.
They were referred to as “Potlood Mausers” (Pencil Mausers) because the long and thin 6.5mm bullet reminded them of pencils.
 
I can suggest contacting S.A.A.A.C.A (South African arms and ammunition collectors association) in South Africa, I was a member there before I moved to Canada, and I know they have done extensive research and cataloging of the Portuguese Mauser rifles. Their email address is saaaca@iafrica.com
 
Hey guys,

Thank you for the resources, I will follow up with them and see how their information can help us figure out this mystery.

I did want to report I made contact with a collector on a South Africa gun forum and he posted a few pictures of his 1904 that is UDF marked. His rifle does have a serial number on the right side of the receiver in the "E" block. He also mentioned the bolt body matches the receiver and looking over the pictures, it is same font and style of that on the receiver. I am hoping to get some more pictures as this may be the first matching 1904 I have seen and I will see if I can get permission to repost his photos here.
 
I posted this on Gunboards but I thought I would share it here with regards to Alan's post:

The summary of the various telegrams is quite interesting. There are some interesting references to the conflict with SMS Konigsberg and the trouble it's presence was causing to the British in the area. You can even see a reference telegram to when the Ottoman Empire had joined the war alongside the Central Powers. There are some particular telegrams that I focused on that may shed some light on our Vergueiros:

telegram from Governor General of South Africa to the Secretary of State for the Colonies, 27 October 1914 – concerning the armed rebellions in the Orange Free State and Transvaal led by General Christian De wet and General Beyers. Folio 279: telegram from Secretary of State for the Colonies to the Governor General of South Africa, 27 October 1914 – 20,000 first rate Mauser rifles and 12,000,000 rounds of ammunition are being sent to you by Union Castle steamer Kildonan Castle leaving England 31st October These will reach you sooner than Krag Jorgensen [rifles] and are much better
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I didn't realize that there were still issues in the OFS and Transvaal that stemmed from the earlier Boer wars but I guess things had not quite settled down yet. Perhaps some of the Boers decided that the Great War conflict would give them a chance to assert their independence without meeting as much resistance as they would have during peace times. Given that the number of rifles is correct, I don't think these are our Vergeuiros, though I would love to know which Mauser variant is being referenced here.

Another interesting note here is the reference to Krag Jorgensen rifles. I wonder if these would be Steyr contract made 1894s ?

telegram from British Consul General, Laurenco Marques to Admiralty, 28 October 1914 – Portuguese vessel Mozambique left Lourenzo Marques for Port Amelia with men, horses, arms and ammunition escorted by [Portuguese] cruiser Dom Carlos I.
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This telegram caught my attention right away and I thought it was the smoking gun that the 20,000 Vergeuiros came out of Lourenco Marques, but when I googled "Port Amelia", I realized this is the modern day port of "Pemba", on the northern shore line of Mozambique. I had wondered how rifles, men, and equipment reached the northern frontier with what was German South West Africa as the journey on foot would have taken a considerable amount of time but this shows that the Portuguese did transfer those supplies to the closest port up north and then the men and equipment made their way inland and along the northern border river of Rovuma River. This is the likely scenario where a large number of DMGLM rifles were deployed in 1916 when Portugal joined the war effort and where the Portuguese made their first thrusts into German South West Africa.

telegram from Secretary of State for the Colonies to the Governor General of the Union of South Africa, 1 November 1914 – inform Ministers that expert will accompany rifles in order to explain mechanism which is delicate and their recoil as they differ from Mausers
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Now this telegram was very interesting. Could this be in regards to the Vergeuiro, in that the action is not the same as what would be familiar with South African forces that may have used the previous Model 1895 Mausers during the earlier Boer Wars ? The time stamp is about the right time when the rifles would have been requested by the British to equip their forces in South Africa. I have also read an article that referenced some material where South Africa soldiers considered the Vergeuiro to be a delicate rifle than what they were used to.

I'll keep on digging to see if I can find any other references.
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Think this thread should be revived.

Perhaps we should also exchange notes on handloading 6.5x58?
I don't have one yet but plan on it in the future, may as well start gathering components for it.
 
Good to see this old thread come up again. I don't have any new updates on finding more DMGLM marked rifles. The few folks who responded to me in South Africa shared their numbers. I found it interesting that some of the rifles do share suffix block letters and a few, like mine, have no serial number marked on the receiver, which I have yet to figure out.

As for my loads, I just want to be clear that this is what I have been using and it may or may not work best for your rifle, use are your own discretion.

I have been using reformed and trimmed 270 Winchester brass with regular 6.5 .264 140 gr diameter bullets that you can pick up at Canadian Tire. These do not always feed well as the original 6.5 Portuguese bullet was long, just like the 6.5 Swedish. The reformed brass, every now and then, doesn't feed properly but that is to be expected. The dies are the CH4D dies for 6.5 Portuguese that, thankfully, came with the rifle and they work well with the reformed brass. Last, but not least, I have been using IMR3031 and experimenting with the powder charge a bit, my last recorded charge being about 32.8 grs using a 2.5cc dipper spoon. Overall length was measured as approximately 80mm.

The rounds feed well from a 8x57mm stripper clip and the bolt manipulation was very smooth. At 100 yards, I took aim at the 6 oclock position of the target as the minimum sighting is at 200 m. The front sight blade on my rifle is ever so slightly bent to the left but it didn't seem to affect my accuracy alot. Free standing, and using the sling as support, I was able to get the first five shots on target and in a decent little group. Recoil was light to moderate and cycling of the action was, again, quite smooth.

The rifle was drawing some attention at the range when fellow shooters nearby, who thought it was a simple Mauser, but were perplexed by the action and bolt. All in all, a lovely day at the range with a unique rifle.
 
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