Possible M305 Issues?? Need Help

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Shawn H

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Hi guys,

Need your help. I just sold an M305 to a gentleman and upon putting it together he had this message for me. Need help trying to figure it out. The rifle has approx. 40 rounds through it and worked flawlessly. I mailed it to him with the trigger assembly pulled out and put it into a padded envelope and separated the action from the stock and they to were wrapped. Is there something that could have been installed wrong, can anyone can help us out with our this? Thanks guys....it should be an easy fix, but the rifle is two provinces over. Here is the message I got.....

“Hey, so I put the rifle together, but the hammer refuses to stay cocked when I rack the bolt with the trigger depressed.
Was it like this before you shipped it out?”
 
Not sure if this helps? and my M1A days are long behind me, but maybe?? send him the instructions to perform a "function test" and go from there?
You should get an answer here since there are a few SME's here with this rifle? Good Luck
 
This appears to be the M1A function test, looks like the sear isn't "resetting" with the hammer? maybe and I'm just guessing here, get him to re-install the trigger group?
Maybe it's not seated in the stock?


1. ALWAYS point the muzzle in a SAFE direction while performing this test.

2. Grip the stock with your left hand. Use your right hand to pull the op rod all the way to the rear and release it so it flies home under spring tension. You have now cocked the hammer.

3. Firmly hold the grip with your left hand and brace the butt stock against your body for more support.

4. This gets a bit tricky as you have to do two things at once. With your left forefinger, pull the trigger AND CONTINUE TO HOLD IT ALL THE WAY TO THE REAR while you perform the rest of the test until it is time to release it later on.

Pull the op rod to the rear AS FAST AS YOU CAN and release it when it is all the way to the rear. REMEMBER: DO NOT RELEASE THE TRIGGER YET.

5. AFTER the bolt slams home, wait a second and then RELEASE the tension on the trigger. You SHOULD hear a noticeable click if it is quiet around you. That click is the sear allowing the rear hammer hooks to catch over the front hammer hooks.

6. NOW pull the trigger again with your left finger. You should both hear and feel the trigger releasing the hammer, just as if you were firing a round.

THAT is HOW the trigger assembly is SUPPOSED to perform to ensure SAFE Semi Auto Firing.
 
perhaps the trigger group is not fully seated in the stock. Sometimes it feels like it's in all the way and the guard will close but the trigger group is not fully seated in the receiver key way.
Have him remove the trigger group , apply a very light film of grease to the "key" on the side of the trigger group that fits the vertical key way in the receiver lug. Get him to push the trigger group in , ensuring the wings are making full stock contact, then close the trigger group. Then get him to do the standard function tests mentioned in the M14 stickies.
 
mildot said:
This appears to be the M1A function test, looks like the sear isn't "resetting" with the hammer? maybe and I'm just guessing here, get him to re-install the trigger group?
Maybe it's not seated in the stock?


1. ALWAYS point the muzzle in a SAFE direction while performing this test.

2. Grip the stock with your left hand. Use your right hand to pull the op rod all the way to the rear and release it so it flies home under spring tension. You have now cocked the hammer.

3. Firmly hold the grip with your left hand and brace the butt stock against your body for more support.

4. This gets a bit tricky as you have to do two things at once. With your left forefinger, pull the trigger AND CONTINUE TO HOLD IT ALL THE WAY TO THE REAR while you perform the rest of the test until it is time to release it later on.

Pull the op rod to the rear AS FAST AS YOU CAN and release it when it is all the way to the rear. REMEMBER: DO NOT RELEASE THE TRIGGER YET.

5. AFTER the bolt slams home, wait a second and then RELEASE the tension on the trigger. You SHOULD hear a noticeable click if it is quiet around you. That click is the sear allowing the rear hammer hooks to catch over the front hammer hooks.

6. NOW pull the trigger again with your left finger. You should both hear and feel the trigger releasing the hammer, just as if you were firing a round.

THAT is HOW the trigger assembly is SUPPOSED to perform to ensure SAFE Semi Auto Firing.
Click to expand...

hahaha we posted same time LOL
 
OK, so what is or can be wrong if this test does not work?

1. The hammer spring housing was assembled wrong side inwards.

2. One or more hammer hook/s is/are broken.

3. Sear is broken.

4. Trigger Assembly worn too much.

5. Trigger Pull right at or BELOW 4 ½ pounds, and the latter is UNSAFE because it does not ensure the hammer will #### all the time.

6. The long tail of the M14 Sear rubs/sticks inside the stock because there is no channel in the stock for clearance OR the channel is not in the right place or not deep enough in the side of the stock. The vertical channel is just ahead of the rear bedding surfaces for the rear of the trigger housing. If you grease the right side of the sear and do the test a few times and then take the trigger mechanism out and see a grease rub on the stock, that means the right side of the sear is rubbing/sticking.

If you cut down the wider M14 sear to the same width as an M1 sear OR install an M1 Trigger Assembly, you NEVER have to worry about this happening.

7. Look at the front of the channel in the stock between the two bedding surfaces for the rear of the trigger housing. If you see a DING or worn spot there, that means the the trigger is rubbing there and can’t go upwards enough. The cure is to clear the rub area with either a chisel or file to deepen the front 1/3rd of the channel so the trigger does not hit.

8. This is a bit tricky as you have to have a GOOD Dial Caliper that reads in thousandths of an inch. Put the calipers INSIDE the stock to measure from the top of the stock down to the two bedding surfaces for the rear of the trigger housing. In a USGI stock for BOTH the M1 Garand and M14, this measurement MUST NOT BE OVER 1.725”. Worn stocks may read around 1.700”.

This distance is CRITICAL to ensure the rear of the trigger housing is not TOO LOW for the bolt to proper push the hammer down far enough to reset and ####. If the distance is OVER 1.725”, then you MUST cut the two rear bedding surfaces higher so the hammer can #### the bolt correctly. USUALLY you will see this in improperly epoxy bedded trigger housings OR in commercial stocks that were not made correctly.

Now the problem comes in with SOME commercial receivers where the “D” shaped cuts in the receiver legs are HIGHER or LOWER than military spec. When that happens, you have to adjust the distance from the top of the stock to the two rear bedding surfaces on the bottom – to ensure the bolt can properly #### the hammer. The WORST case of this I have ever run across was on an early LRB receiver where the “D” shaped cuts in the receiver legs were TOO HIGH. I had to adjust the distance from the top of the stock down to the rear bedding surfaces to 1.690” to ensure bolt would properly #### the hammer.
 
Thanks guys!! I sure hope reinstalling the trigger group works. The trigger group is in like new condition, but there could be Chinese Quality Control. I will let you all know the outcome.
 
I am the guy in question.
I can see into the trigger group through the full-auto hole in the wood stock, and while cycling the action, the hammer is not being pushed down far enough to catch on the rear sear if the trigger is depressed.
It does however catch just fine if the trigger is not depressed.
Edit: further more, it functions when OUTSIDE of the stock (trigger group installed in barrelled action, but not in the wood stock.
As far as I can tell, the stock is the culprit, and preventing the trigger group from going high enough up to allow the bolt to depress and catch the rear sear.
 
if it's a stock fit problem, pretty easy fix. maybe the stock swelled some while apart from the action and in transit. I've seen this before and should be a very easy fix.
 
Rack the op-rod fast....

Don’t get me wrong, slow is good. But when you do it with authority the hammer will “bounce” slightly.

If it catches when racked in a quicker manner then there is nothing to worry about.

If the problem persists, then it’s time to dig out some tools...

John
 
I tried racking it as hard as I could a few times, and it caught on the rear sear a couple times. Better than nothing though.
I've tried removing some material from the wood where the trigger group seats, and the rear sear and hammer are closer to catching (2mm down to 0.5mm)
 
OP, just curious: did it pass the function test when you had it?

Dollar Bill: just curious, do you have it in a different stock than what the OP sent?
 
m14medic.ca said:
Rack the op-rod fast....

Don’t get me wrong, slow is good. But when you do it with authority the hammer will “bounce” slightly.

If it catches when racked in a quicker manner then there is nothing to worry about.

If the problem persists, then it’s time to dig out some tools...

John
Click to expand...

Um no. If it fails the test, it fails the test.
 
I have never fired it or tried it when I put the USGI stock on. M14medic finished my M1a build from Wolverine with the parts kit and never really looked at this rifle again. I got rid of the Chinese stock to a guy that needed one because he got a bummed one from the factory.
 
@Odd Shot, the rifle came disassembled but with the GI stock, as I bought it.
@Jmiverson, I have tried the function test and the rear sear (the one that engages when you're depressing the trigger) sometimes catches the hammer, but sometimes doesn't.
I can see into the stock and see that when I rack it slowly, the hammer teeth narrowly miss catching on the rear sear, as in they're teeth-to-teeth.
When I first started inletting the stock, they were 2mm away from achieving connection.
When the hammer does stay back, and I slowly release the trigger, it does the standard "tink" of the front sears catching, much like when dealing with an AR-15.
 
ya, you can pull it back as slow as you want but ideally one gives it a good yank then immediately releases it to "fly" home into battery with force. This will disengage a barely engaged hammer so is a good way to do the function test.
Sounds like the buyer has a bit of knowledge, enuff to know what he's looking at when he described his trigger function out of the firearm.
Buyer and seller can work out what to do and the rest of us should stay of that conversation altogether in my very humble opinion.
sh*t happens , deal with it like gentleman.

now if it were me, if the price was decent and I can verify the trigger is not defective and passes all out of rifle function tests as outlined in the kunhaussen 30 service rifle shop manual..... I would simply address stock fit till it reliably passes in rifle function tests and everybody's happy ;)
 
I had issues with mine when I put a usgi wood stock on. Ended up having to do some sanding on the wood to get it to work and pass the function test
 
Hello again. So I had to remove around 1/4 inch of material from where the rear of the trigger group seats, and some material around the top of the wood where the receiver sits on top of.
The rifle now catches the rear sear with the trigger depressed, even when racking the op rod as slowly as possible.
I went through the full function test again and it passes every time.
I think we've got it solved, thanks for the help guys.
 
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