powder charge differences

legi0n

legi0n

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I'm loading 30-06 with IMR4350 and 180gr Hornady SP Interlocks
Lee manual recommends 49.1 to 53gr while Hodgdon's website says 53 to 56.5gr
The thing is I tried both loads and I get same size groups for 49.7gr and 54.4gr
The 54.4gr load shoots closer (elevation-wise) to the Federal Powershock 180gr factory ammo while the 49.7gr shoots lower.
I don't have a chronograph but there are no signs of excessive pressure on both loads.

I don't think deer care much about my loads but I'm curious why does one source list charges greater the other's max load.
 
Differences

One difference might be the firearm or test barrel. I own several reloading books and find that the overlap on the same powder from one company to the next is sometimes concerning. One or two gr is fine but 4 to 6 is a little high for my liking.

There are also the variables of different brass, primers, barrel make, barrel length, powder lots etc. etc.

So you see you can have a wide variable available.
 
I see.
I'll stick to the 49.7gr load then. It saves me some $$$ and reduces copper fouling. Hope the brass will last longer too.

thanks
 
In the 30-06 with a 180 grain bullet, 49.7 grains of IMR 4350 is VERY mild. I have yet to find a 30-06 that would not digest 55 grains safely, even pumps and Semi-autos. Many rifles with long throats are maxed at around 56-57 grains. A 30-06 I had with a 22" tube would give about 2750 fps with 56.5 grains of IMR 4350. My present Remington 700SSDM has a 24" barrel, and gives just over 2800 with the same load. I might add that the accuracy is superb at that loading, and brass life is great! 50.0 grains of IMR 4350 is a pet load many use with the 220 grain bullet, not one 40 grains lighter. Regards, Eagleye.
 
also the strength of the action, one load could be for a semi, while the other for a heavy bolt gun.

from what i have seen higher loaded factory ammo has a warning to not shoot it in a semi as it will cycle the action to hard (if it doesent have an adjustable gas system)
 
I have done some experimenting with IMR4350, two 30-06 rifles, 180 grain bullets and a chronograph.
For starters, 54 grains averaged 2436 fps. Notice that this beats a 30-30, but I will guess 49.1 grain would likely be neck and neck with a 30-30!
The two 30-06 rifles shoot the same load at about 75fps different velocity. The Husqvarna is always slower than the old Remington by about that amount. However, the Husqvarna can safely be loaded to a greater velocity than the old Remington will take without showing signs of excessive presure. The above load quoted was with the Husqvarna.
58 grains of 4350 gave 2642 in the Husqvarna and 2731 in the old Remington and was near top load in the Remington.
A bit heavier charge of Norma 204 gave 2810 in the Husqvarna with great accuracy.
 
That load you are using is kinda mild. I would be afraid of poor ignition. The 54 gr sounds more like a real load.

You asked why the books are different. This is because each rifle is different. They are reporting how their rifles did.

Your rifle could need 5 gr more or less powder to get the same velocity. Your rifle might be a max pressure at or near the start load.

The "Max" load in the book does not mean that load is safe in your rifle. It could be much too hot. When they say start low and work up, they mean it.

To be sure your 54 gr load is ok,. try a few rounds with 1 grain more. If they don't show pressure problems, then you are good to go. If they show pressure then the 54 is probably too hot and on a hot day would not work well.
 
My standard 06 load is 57 grs 4350 with 180s. Work up from below but that is a safe load. If your 06 won't shoot that with 180 Hornadys somethings wrong.
 
The people printing the manuals use different barrels,chambered with different reamers,they use different lot#s of components,and load to different COLs.As such ,the maximum loads and velocities listed in the various manuals often vary considerably.Each gun is an individual,and may produce different pressures and velocities with a given load.That is why a person must work up a load with a given gun,and specific lot#s of components.When you change a component or a lot# of a component,you need to work up the load again or at least verify that no pressure signs are evident,and recheck your point of impact.The data printed in manuals is meant as a guide,and you should never assume that all loads listed in a manual will be safe in your gun.Some people advocate simply working up a load until the velocity matches the maximum velocity listed in a manual,but your gun may not safely produce the velocity listed in the manual.Then again,since the velocities listed in manuals vary by over 100fps or more from manual to manual,with identical components and barrel length,which velocity do you assume to be safe in your rifle?The only safe way to develop a load,is to start with a starting load,and work up while watching for pressure signs.
 
legi0n said:
Are you guys suggesting I should ask Santa for a chronograph? :D
Click to expand...

Absolutely. You're missing a world of important info not knowing velocities. It kind of makes load workup guesswork - you can achieve accuracy but won't have any idea about external ballistics. Because a load goes "X" fps in a reloading manual doesn't mean squat in the real world with hunting rifles. Speed deviations and spreads can tell you a pile and save a lot of trial and error.
Write that letter, the one that starts with Dear Santa....you've been a good boy, blah-blah-blah. Remember that Santa knows when you're lying!
 
underloading....

Having acquired a couple of very nice 9.3x57's and not having factory loaded shells readily available-plus the cost when I can get them-$47 for a box of Norma ,plus $20 shipping-I decided to learn to reload.My first attempt was at a friends house under his direction -but last night I tried it on my own with my equipment-prepared the cases, resized 8x57 to 9.3[no problems experianced]primed the cases with an old lachmiller primer press I picked up[no problems seating them nice and flush either] and then carefully weighed out each charge of IMR4064-then proceeded to seat some 286 grPriviPartizan soft nosed bullets[I used a factory loaded shell as a guide for seating depth ]-which I understand work well at the relatively low velocities of the 9,3x57-around 2000-2100 fps.However-once I had finished-I realised I had set my scale at 42 gr-instead of 47 gr.which is what I intended.My first batch[was 46 gr of IMR 4064 with 270 gr Speers-which shot well in my rifles-good accuracy,no pressure issues.Due to the case limitations of the 9,3x57-overloading doesn't seem to be much of a risk-but my question is-what sort of results can I expect from underloading by 5 gr?Should I attempt to pull the bullets and recharge them -or just shoot them?
 
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legi0n said:
I'm loading 30-06 with IMR4350 and 180gr Hornady SP Interlocks
Lee manual recommends 49.1 to 53gr while Hodgdon's website says 53 to 56.5gr
The thing is I tried both loads and I get same size groups for 49.7gr and 54.4gr
The 54.4gr load shoots closer (elevation-wise) to the Federal Powershock 180gr factory ammo while the 49.7gr shoots lower.
I don't have a chronograph but there are no signs of excessive pressure on both loads.

I don't think deer care much about my loads but I'm curious why does one source list charges greater the other's max load.
Click to expand...

Odd, my LEE manual lists51.1-57.0 for the 180 jacketed. Which is bang on. I hunt with 57gr and it's a tack driver with 55gr.
 
ratherbefishin said:
Having acquired a couple of very nice 9.3x57's and not having factory loaded shells readily available-plus the cost when I can get them-$47 for a box of Norma ,plus $20 shipping-I decided to learn to reload.My first attempt was at a friends house under his direction -but last night I tried it on my own with my equipment-prepared the cases, resized 8x57 to 9.3[no problems experianced]primed the cases with an old lachmiller primer press I picked up[no problems seating them nice and flush either] and then carefully weighed out each charge of IMR4064-then proceeded to seat some 286 grPriviPartizan soft nosed bullets[I used a factory loaded shell as a guide for seating depth ]-which I understand work well at the relatively low velocities of the 9,3x57-around 2000-2100 fps.However-once I had finished-I realised I had set my scale at 42 gr-instead of 47 gr.which is what I intended.My first batch[was 46 gr of IMR 4064 with 270 gr Speers-which shot well in my rifles-good accuracy,no pressure issues.Due to the case limitations of the 9,3x57-overloading doesn't seem to be much of a risk-but my question is-what sort of results can I expect from underloading by 5 gr?Should I attempt to pull the bullets and recharge them -or just shoot them?
Click to expand...

Before we talk about pulling bullets, let me state that you have made a terrible errror and violated one of the top one or two primary and vital rules of reloading.
You could just as well have set it 5 grains too heavy, then what would have happened!
Whatever the reason for not setting the scale correctly, whether it was unfamiliararity with the scale, a lapse of concentration, or just plain carelessness, you must correct the cause and see that you never do it again.
It's your descision whether you pull the bullets and save the components, or pop them off. If your friend has a good bullet puller, I would suggest pulling them.
 
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Agreed-this was the first time I had reloaded on my own and used a powder scale[an Ohaus 10-10]-I set the main beam on the notch for 40 gr-thinking it was 45, then set the roller increment at ''2''to get my intended 47 gr-charged the cases-they looked slightly lower in the case than my first batch,but not enough to be readily seen as diferent[46gr nearly fills them up to the shoulder-the actual case capacity filled to the brim,no room for a bullet, is 58 gr] and only later went back and looked at the scale again,realising the increments were 10 gr apart-not 5.I also checked by using a Lee powder dipper chart and found the 45 gr load dipper was right on the button on my scale
Yes- a good lesson-and had I over charged them vs underchrged them by 5 gr[52 gr],I would not shoot them.But my question is-is there any risk in shooting an undercharged load,and what might I expect?
 
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Shooting an under the book load. You will likely gets lots of replies stating it is dangerous to shoot a load with a powder charge of less than the starting load stated in a loading manual. Some of these replies will be from knowledgable people, but most of them will be from newer reloaders that read that in their manual.
After Hodgdon's H4831 powder was on the market for a while, it was reported that someone had loaded a light load of this powder and something happened that make it explode and blow their rifle up. Hodgdon's doubted this and I have a report where Bruce Hodgdon tried to duplicate that in a lab. They fired off hundreds of loads in a pressure gun with all their slow powders in various calibres, and every low load going. He could not duplicate the explosion in the lab. However, with H4831 powder it was generally conceded that to be safe one shouldn't load it light.
In the meantime I had used H4831 for a lot of experiments with a light load in a 30-06 and all I found was that the light loads didn't burn all the powder and if you went too light, it went off with a "woof," instead of a "boom."
It has only been in recent years that this alarm has arisen about light loads applying to any powder. In the meantime, many, many millions of light loads have been used in a great many different powders, in every calibre made, and no one got their head blown off!
 
"Due to the case limitations of the 9,3x57-overloading doesn't seem to be much of a risk-but my question is-what sort of results can I expect from underloading by 5 gr?Should I attempt to pull the bullets and recharge them -or just shoot them?"

I have made the same mistake with a balance beam scales - in both directions.

You did not say how many you made. If it was hundreds, then a bullet pulling session is in order. If only a box or two, go to the range and get some shotting practice. they will shoot
just fine - just a bit low.

If you are a hunter, use them to practice shooting standing and sitting at a 50 yard target. Perfect ammo for that.

After filling the loading block I stand up and scan the cases to make sure they all have powder and all look the same. This was your opportunity to say "Hmmm. Look kinda low..."
 
I only loaded a box-I was careful to transfer one shell at a time to another place in the loading block as I went through the process,one step at a time.I did look at the charged shells, making sure I had a charge in each one,and they did look a bit low-but not enough to alert me I had made a mistake[overloading the 9,3x57 would be pretty appearant due to case capacity]Oh well,at least I know I have 20 carefully weighed charges-5 gr under what I wanted.

The 9,3x57 is considered a ''short range'' under 200 yard caliber[although that exceeds my average shot by about 3 times anyway]so I'm not sure what effect a 42 gr charge would be vs a 47 gr charge behind a 286 gr soft nosed bullet in actual hunting conditions .I;m not sure how critical IMR 4064 is either in terms of pressure.Ironically-I decided to weigh each charge because I can't seem to get the powder dispensor throwing the same charges

However-I certainly agree I made a fundamental and potentially dangerous mistake-miscalculating a load.I think I will use the 45 gr lee dipper in future to put the main amount on the scale,then top up the extra grains to the desired amount.That should avoid a similar mistake.Of course-now that I am aware of the correct scale increments,I won't make that mistake again...
 
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