Powder Charges

[Squibloads]

Do you weigh all your powder charges? My Hornady powder dispenser puts the charge on the money every second throw...the other times it is off by two tenths of a grain...is this crucial?

Is there any reason not to use a ball powder for LR work?
I am shooting a 30-06 Rem brass, Win primers and H4350 with a 178 gr Hornady match...

My load of 57.0 gr gives me a SD of 35...I have read that a person should try and keep it under 20...maybe I have to weigh each load...so many questions...

 

[thunderstruck]

Do you weigh all your powder charges? My Hornady powder dispenser puts the charge on the money every second throw...the other times it is off by two tenths of a grain...is this crucial?

Is there any reason not to use a ball powder for LR work?
I am shooting a 30-06 Rem brass, Win primers and H4350 with a 178 gr Hornady match...

My load of 57.0 gr gives me a SD of 35...I have read that a person should try and keep it under 20...maybe I have to weigh each load...so many questions...

Yes I weigh each load. There are many factors that can effect ES or SD such as neck tension, your actual load, primers,Brass consistancy. The one thing that is often over looked is the actual chronograph accuracy. +or-1% error on 3000fps is 30fps error. I would worry more about how my groups looked @ range. If they start to get a verticl component to them at range there is a good possibility you have a large SD or ES.

 

[Squibloads]

Yes I weigh each load. There are many factors that can effect ES or SD such as neck tension, your actual load, primers,Brass consistancy. The one thing that is often over looked is the actual chronograph accuracy. +or-1% error on 3000fps is 30fps error. I would worry more about how my groups looked @ range. If they start to get a verticl component to them at range there is a good possibility you have a large SD or ES.

Well my Pact Mk III Timer and Chronograph was state of the art back in 86....Looks like I need a neck reamer...at least or better brass...Does it matter if I use a ball powder as opposed to extruded...?

 

[thunderstruck]

Well my Pact Mk III Timer and Chronograph was state of the art back in 86....Looks like I need a neck reamer...at least or better brass...Does it matter if I use a ball powder as opposed to extruded...?

nothing wrong with H4350. I have used it sucessfully in my 06. I use lapua brass in my 06. Got it from hirsch percision on the east coast. Very consistant brass. Nothing wrong with working over other brass. I have had good success outside neck turning, primer pocket uniforming and weight sorting brass. This sort of thing has definatly tightened up groups and brought SD down. Although I take SD and ES with a grain of salt and worry more about how the load is actually performing down range.

 

[Squibloads]

nothing wrong with H4350. I have used it sucessfully in my 06. I use lapua brass in my 06. Got it from hirsch percision on the east coast. Very consistant brass. Nothing wrong with working over other brass. I have had good success outside neck turning, primer pocket uniforming and weight sorting brass. This sort of thing has definatly tightened up groups and brought SD down. Although I take SD and ES with a grain of salt and worry more about how the load is actually performing down range.

Thanks that will save me alot of pounding my head against the wall trying to figure out stuff on my own...

 

[vviking]

My stick powder charges get weighed to +/- .1 grain. Ball powders get thrown straight out of the measure.
H414 or WW760 are very close to the 4350's burn rate, and do meter very precisely.

As thunderstruck mentioned, neck tension plays a role in low ES's.
Annealed brass shows less variation from shot to shot.
Groups, especially vertical at LR, may respond well to freshly annealed case necks.
You can feel the difference through the press handle when seating bullets, annealed is uniform.

 

[Squibloads]

My stick powder charges get weighed to +/- .1 grain. Ball powders get thrown straight out of the measure.
H414 or WW760 are very close to the 4350's burn rate, and do meter very precisely.

As thunderstruck mentioned, neck tension plays a role in low ES's.
Annealed brass shows less variation from shot to shot.
Groups, especially vertical at LR, may respond well to freshly annealed case necks.
You can feel the difference through the press handle when seating bullets, annealed is uniform.

I have a good supply of 760 and a little 414 will experiment...I'll have to decide if I want to go the Lapua route or spend the extra bucks buying the equipment to turn necks and attend to primer pockets, flash holes etc on brass like rem, win, fed...

 

[ron hilchey]

I now use Lapua brass exclusively. I have wasted many hours trying to make other brass consistent enough for long range. I used Lapua brass at the N.S. prize meet this year that was fired 9 times in my gun without a problem, and there is a Canadian distributer who supports Canadian shooters.
What's not to like.

 

[vviking]

I have a good supply of 760 and a little 414 will experiment...I'll have to decide if I want to go the Lapua route or spend the extra bucks buying the equipment to turn necks and attend to primer pockets, flash holes etc on brass like rem, win, fed...

You will be money, time, and agro ahead with lapua brass. It comes out of the box beautifully annealed, with even "no turn" necks, proper primer pockets, and even weight.
The stuff is super long life, case heads are a tough alloy that takes pressure repeatedly without opening pockets.
I can't recall ever retiring any, some warm loaded 6.5x55 cases have 20+ (neck sized) firings and still going strong.

Let us know how the ball powder works for ya ..... range report???

 

[Squibloads]

Well I will "bite the bullet"...(bad pun) and order some Lapua brass...

I could not find a source that used ball powders in the combination I am using for LR work...this got me thinking that ball powder was a no-no....Now that I have talked to you people I am definitely going to give it a whirl...

 

[Mystic Precision]

Do you weigh all your powder charges? My Hornady powder dispenser puts the charge on the money every second throw...the other times it is off by two tenths of a grain...is this crucial?

Is there any reason not to use a ball powder for LR work?
I am shooting a 30-06 Rem brass, Win primers and H4350 with a 178 gr Hornady match...

My load of 57.0 gr gives me a SD of 35...I have read that a person should try and keep it under 20...maybe I have to weigh each load...so many questions...

The best way to answer is to test for yourself. Get an accurate scale and test loads varying by 0.1gr

So you want to do 3 groups at 56.8 to 57.2gr. test at 200 or 300yds and see what happens.

some combos are insensitive to even 1/2 gr variance. some can see 0.1gr.

If the groups are identical with loads varying as much as your auto system can delivery, all is well. Otherwise, improve the dispensing for best results.

I gave up worrying about chronie numbers when I saw what the built in error is. You can't use data where the error in the data can be larger then the numbers you are trying to monitor.

Like using a tape measure to measure to the nearest thou of an inch. Worthless info

I much prefer to see holes in paper and I tune my loads for the flatest groups possible. See my articles in the Tech section on my website. Lots to help you tune your loads

I have used a wide range of brass and found that within the same lot, most commercial brands can work just fine. A bit of basic prep is all that is needed to reap excellent results.

I used some ancient LC pulldown brass likely from machine gun ammo. wonky as heck but just some very basic tweaks and it shot as good as premium brass. The rifle was only capable of 1/3 min at 250yds and that is what the LC brass gave.

more important was the powder charge, bedding, bullet and optics.

Regarding the ball powder question, we don't because the ball powder chemisty leads it to generally be very temp sensitive.

Velocities and pressures change measureably with as little as 10F change. Just like varying the powder charge.

So if you found your best load in the spring at 60F, you would need to adjust your load to stay in tune on a hot summer 90F day. Then also, in the morning vs the afternoon and every where in between.

It's a royal pain and most of us can't load during a match.

Then old gen ball powders like the ones listed, tend to also burn pretty dirty. Yes, higher pressures will help this along but then you run the risk of going too hot as ambient conditions change

I am really hoping that the "new gen" ball powders seeing NATO service will one day filter down to us. These powders are rumored to resolve many of the old woes but since we can't play with them, we can only dream

Yes, new powders have been released from several companies. Give them a try and decide for yourself.

Jerry

 

[Squibloads]

The best way to answer is to test for yourself. Get an accurate scale and test loads varying by 0.1gr

So you want to do 3 groups at 56.8 to 57.2gr. test at 200 or 300yds and see what happens.

some combos are insensitive to even 1/2 gr variance. some can see 0.1gr.

If the groups are identical with loads varying as much as your auto system can delivery, all is well. Otherwise, improve the dispensing for best results.

I gave up worrying about chronie numbers when I saw what the built in error is. You can't use data where the error in the data can be larger then the numbers you are trying to monitor.

Like using a tape measure to measure to the nearest thou of an inch. Worthless info

I much prefer to see holes in paper and I tune my loads for the flatest groups possible. See my articles in the Tech section on my website. Lots to help you tune your loads

I have used a wide range of brass and found that within the same lot, most commercial brands can work just fine. A bit of basic prep is all that is needed to reap excellent results.

I used some ancient LC pulldown brass likely from machine gun ammo. wonky as heck but just some very basic tweaks and it shot as good as premium brass. The rifle was only capable of 1/3 min at 250yds and that is what the LC brass gave.

more important was the powder charge, bedding, bullet and optics.

Regarding the ball powder question, we don't because the ball powder chemisty leads it to generally be very temp sensitive.

Velocities and pressures change measureably with as little as 10F change. Just like varying the powder charge.

So if you found your best load in the spring at 60F, you would need to adjust your load to stay in tune on a hot summer 90F day. Then also, in the morning vs the afternoon and every where in between.

It's a royal pain and most of us can't load during a match.

Then old gen ball powders like the ones listed, tend to also burn pretty dirty. Yes, higher pressures will help this along but then you run the risk of going too hot as ambient conditions change

I am really hoping that the "new gen" ball powders seeing NATO service will one day filter down to us. These powders are rumored to resolve many of the old woes but since we can't play with them, we can only dream

Yes, new powders have been released from several companies. Give them a try and decide for yourself.

Jerry

I have a good scale...will load some rounds in small increments as suggested...and then test to see what's happening...Thanks for your reply on Ball powders...will stick it out with H4350 for now....I'd rather do some reading from people such as yourself who have put in the time to overcome alot of problems...then to "wing it on the fly"...

Thanks for the Tips...