Powder type and flame cutting in revolvers

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gunstock

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On the Smith & Wesson forum there was a discussion on possible flame cutting of the forcing cones when using Titegroup. It was stated that Titegroup was very "Hot Burning" and could cause more erosion due to the hotter gasses escaping through the forcing cone/cylinder gap.
My question is are "Hot Burning" and "Burn Rate" related?

I am new to reloading and currently have Win 251 and 296 for 9mm, .38, .357, .44 SP, .44 Mag, 45 Colt & 460 mag. Would these powders be considered "Hot Burning"?

What powder recommendations would you have for these calibres to keep down erosion but still have relatively good accuracy. Most of my target shooting is not serious competition.

Thanks, Gunstock
 
There isn't a direct connection between "Hot Burning" and "quick burning".

An increase in the nitroglycerine content of a powder increases its flame temperature. NG content is easy enough to find out for various different powders.

There are also various additives in powder to control peak flame temperatures, in order to control erosion. It's not as easy to figure this out and compare powder A to powder B.

In rifle powders, some are "single base" (i.e. nitrocellulose only, 0% NG), others are "double base" (with NG contents typically from single digits up into mid-20s%).

There's a greater tendency to use double base formulation for pistol powders. I'm not sure if there is a single base pistol powder out there or not. You might want to have a quick check at the Vihtavurori pistol powders?
 
My standard line is that if you manage to wear out a revolver forcing cone, you deserve a new revolver. If you manage to flame cut a frame into uselessness, you will become an internet legend.
 
Howdy , I manged to flame cut a ruger bisley 357 with POUNDS and years of shooting 200 grain siloette loads . Do I get a" atta boy " for that .
OH the gun is still going strong .
 
Flame cutting usually occurs on the top strap of the revolver--is not considered a real problem in most revolvers--mostly occurs in high pressure rounds like .357 mag. The worst offender was the .357 maximum--ruger actually stopped producing revolvers in this chambering because of the problem.

Some damage to the forcing cone can occur because of erosion from gasses getting by the bullet and from high pressure gasses behind it--again was only a significant issue with the ,357 maximum. Dan Wession used to ship 2 barrels with their revolvers in that chambering.

Flame cutting is not usually a problem with target velocity loads.

FWIW, 44Bore
 
I've cut a bit of the top strap of my 686, I haven't shot it that much...

I'm not particularly worried about it. Like Julian said (or implied), I've never heard of someone cutting clear through their top strap.
 
gunstock said:
On the Smith & Wesson forum there was a discussion on possible flame cutting of the forcing cones when using Titegroup. It was stated that Titegroup was very "Hot Burning" and could cause more erosion due to the hotter gasses escaping through the forcing cone/cylinder gap.
My question is are "Hot Burning" and "Burn Rate" related?

I am new to reloading and currently have Win 251 and 296 for 9mm, .38, .357, .44 SP, .44 Mag, 45 Colt & 460 mag. Would these powders be considered "Hot Burning"?

What powder recommendations would you have for these calibres to keep down erosion but still have relatively good accuracy. Most of my target shooting is not serious competition.

Thanks, Gunstock
Click to expand...

IMO, Hot burning would refer to the high or highest temperature reached when powder burns.

Burn rate refers to the powder's "speed" to attain maximum or peak pressure. For example, Bullseye, 700X or W231 are powders with fast burn rate, they attain pressure quickly, burn mostly in the chamber, hardly any muzzle flash. Herco or Unique are medium speed.

2400 is a slow powder suitable for magnum loads, continues burning the whole length of the barrel, pushing the bullet until it leaves the muzzle therefore giving maximum velocity and gives a huge brilliant muzzle flash.

With regard to flame cutting, I believe that both high temp and the length (time) are the causes. I shoot a lot of +P 38s (4.3 grn 700X over 158 grain LSWC) and it doesn't seem to increase flame cut. I believe that is because the burn time (or rate) is quick. Same thing with 5.1 grn Titegroup over 125 PHP bullets. No discernible increase in flame cut.

I've used Blue Dot, which many say is a notorious flame cutter. 50 rounds of 14 grains BD over 125 grain JHPs in my newer 686 (which had no flame cut) and I already see flame cut. I now use 2400 but cannot say if and how it cuts, cos my 3 L-frames already have the cuts. I hesitate to shoot my pretty GP100 on full magnums although that is what they were designed for.
 
One time people made fun of me because my model 60 looked like a girl gun :(

I've got small hands ok!
 
Some older Smith and Wesson revolvers, I'm not sure about Colts, had a small indent cut into the top strap just forward of the cylinder to pre cut the frame if you will. They later dropped the practice from thier manufacture and it was not considered a requirement as the cut, as mentioned prior, can only go so far.

Scott
 
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