Precision M1A

TheCanuck

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How much fine tuning can you do to an M1a? How tight shooting can you get one? Would any gunsmith work on one?

I'm thinking of maybe having one rebuilt in .260rem. How hard would it be to get one rebarreled in .260rem?
 
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My accurized Norinco M14S is quite accurate. Similar accuracy is obtainable with the M1A ;)

My M14S is all USGI except for the receiver, which is a Norinco M14S/M305 and the barrel which is a Douglas-Barrett heavy target barrel. The cheekpiece is an early Rooster33 type. I've also got a Rooster33 oprod spring guide inside. The gas assembly is shimmed up tight and USGI fibreglass stock is bedded. Hungry measured the headspace at 1.630" which is as tight as I would want it (minimum) for accuracy. This is with the USGI bolt. The Norinco bolt gives me an extra 0.005" headspace which is still good. The bipod is a Harris shorty swivel type. The optical sight is a Bushnell Elite 3200 10X40 mildot in Burris Signature Z-rings, mounted on an ARMS-18 mount. Iron sights are USGI M14 sights. She can really shoot too. With handloads, my smallest 5-shot group is 0.325" at 100y. It normally groups around 0.75MOA though :dancingbanana:
 
TheCanuck said:
Nice, pretty much the kind of accuracy i want.

Open up the wallet, cause it ain't gonna be cheap!!!!!!:D ;)

You can expect anywhere from 0.25 MOA to just under 1 MOA (depending on what you change, and what work you do.)

My match M14s had the chambers cut to headspace at 1.630" (SAAMI Minimum) with new TRW bolts.One rifle was a Douglas Heavy 1 in 10" twist 6 groove barrel, and the other was a Smith CrazyHorse 1 in 10" twist 4 groove Medium weight barrel.

It can be done, but it takes time, tuning, and $$$$$$$.;)

SKBY.
 
Yes, open your wallet alright. Stay with the .308 though. You can have chambering done in .260, 7-08 or .243, but the main problem is getting a good gunsmith who can understand the gas/pressure relationship with slower buring powders which are required in the .260. The .308 is so accurate and well developed for that gun. What you don't want is to spend a huge some of money only to find innacuracy and feeding problems.
 
canuckhunter said:
Yes, open your wallet alright. Stay with the .308 though. You can have chambering done in .260, 7-08 or .243, but the main problem is getting a good gunsmith who can understand the gas/pressure relationship with slower buring powders which are required in the .260. The .308 is so accurate and well developed for that gun. What you don't want is to spend a huge some of money only to find innacuracy and feeding problems.
Care to elaborate alittle?
 
Way back in 1996, the mouse gun was just beginning to kick butt at Camp Perry by :

* 80 gr. VLD Sierra Match king bullets
* Free floated NM handguards
* Wylde Chambered (Wylde reamers, I should say) Douglas, Hart , Obermyer, Compass Lake , yada yada yada barrels
* 2 lb weights in the buttstock (Ray-Vin, I believe)
* Tuned 2 stage match triggers

All of this is documented in John Feamster's book (do a google search) "Black Magic, The Mouse that Roared" or something like that. My copy is downstairs and I don't feel like tripping over 20 18-19 year olds celebrating the new year.

At this time the USMC was still shooting their tried and true M14's all the while the US ARMY's reign at the National Matches was just beginning.... the rest is history.

So what type of prep work went into the USMC's M14s ? Well let me try this list (at the top of my head and not near my downstairs library, where my son's party is going on)....

* Hart, Obermyer , Mike Rock 5R, Douglas, yada, yada, yada custom barrels
* 1.630" chambers (even smaller in very few cases, I'm told)
* Unitized by welding, gas cylinders
* Some titanium nitrided gas pistons
* NM cylindrical op rod spring guides (Brookfield Precision and others)
* Glued handguards (glued upwards to the metal retaining handguard clip)
* Glued handguard (epoxy of some sort, likely Devcon or Marine Tex) to the front band that's bent upwards to accomodate fat barrel and shoulders at gas cylinder interface
* Relieved handguard by about 1/16" to avoid contact with forestock... cooling of barrel is helped also. No handguard rattle whatsoever (one piece vibration pattern.
* Hogged out flash suppressor with # 7 tapered pin reamer to 0.406 ID
* Rear and front lugs welded to USGI M14 reciever, increases bedding surface area
* Devcon'ed or Marine Text'd to the McMillan NM M14, super fat profile barrel
* USGI National Match contract rear and front sights
* Rear sight was 0.052" aperture (cannot recall off top of my head) and front was 0.062" to align with black bull at 600 yds
* Front band COULD have tight, loose and NO contact. Experiments showed no differences in accuracy according the the US AMTU builders.

This is a list of commonly carried out practices that I would try to emulate in my efforts to tweak my USGI M14's back in the 80's and 90's, well except the titanium nitride gas piston. I found them to be too expensive to buy from Fulton Armory. Back in the 80's, Clint sold me all kinds of NM tuned goodies for my rifle builds. Okay, I did not touch the 'lugging' issue since I know nothing about welding or heat treating. My rifles could shoot into an inch with boring regularity, just ask Skullboy. I sold him one of my greatest builds back in 93.

Not bad for being able to build my M14's in my humble basement in Collingwood. Many of you CGNutters who have attended my 2002 and 2003 clinics will attest to that!
 
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TheCanuck said:
Ok, that's too much trouble. Screw this.

Thanks for the fine, detailed answers!

Marc
Depends what you got to spend and what it's worth to you. Many of us here have a love affair for the M-14.

To elaborate a little more on different calibres like the .260 for the M-14, I've spoke to some expert gunsmiths who have built several M-14/M-16's in the USA. They always recommend staying with the original calibres. Why? Because they work. Plain and simple. Once you change to slower burning powders then you need to adjust the whole gas cylinder arrangement, make a different size gas hole in the barrel, etc. You will be trying to make it operate the same way that the .308 cartridge makes it cycle. Accuracy and reliability can go to hell in a heartbeat if something gets out of sync here.

There's been so much developement done to make the M-14 and the .308 perform superbly and many mods with it, that IMO, stay with it. You won't be sorry and you won't be trying to sell an odd M-14 that nobody wants. Besides I still buy surplus 7.62 ammo so that I get more range and trigger time.
 
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