Precision rifle builders in Canada
- Thread starter PSR
- Start date
- Location
- lloydminster
It's when someone comes out and says "I'm gonna build 1/4moa 10k field guns" is when people are gonna come out and tell you... That thang aint possible. Like others have said, you're gonna need to build one hell of a rifle and make a dam good name for your self in this industry.
I personally know a custom builder (some of you know him too if you recognise where I live) and his guns shoot 1/2moa (some better and all 5 shot groups) with match ammo or a hand load of sorts if the Caliber isnt on the shelf. His guns run up to 7-8k. Using premium components, where's you're extra 3k coming from?
Were aren't here to rain on your parade but dude you gotta understand Canadians get skeptical about this stuff lol. We don't have the same luxuries as the boys down south and we are leary about the guns we buy lol.
I'm looking at 6500$-7000 CAD in components per rifle. Rifles will come with badger efrs, pelican cases and atlas bipods and carekoted . The goal is a turn key sniper system for Leo and civvies alike with ZERO wait time. Only thing missing is optics. So what would you say is a decent price for the time effort and skill / guarentee?
For example
Defiance deviant action $1400
Badger dbm $350
Badger efr $300
Proof research barrel $1000
McMillan isn't a4 $1000
Atlas bipod $300
Pelican $300
AAC muzzle break $150
Timney trigger $150
Prices are USD convert those and let me know if u still think my price range is absurd.
Thanks Felipe
Defiance deviant action $1400
Badger dbm $350
Badger efr $300
Proof research barrel $1000
McMillan isn't a4 $1000
Atlas bipod $300
Pelican $300
AAC muzzle break $150
Timney trigger $150
Prices are USD convert those and let me know if u still think my price range is absurd.
Thanks Felipe
Serious question, who do you think is going to buy your first batch of rifles for 10K? Even if you sold it for the cost of the components people aren't gonna take that risk when you have so many proven options for less?
I think a venture like this cannot be dove into the way your proposing. Just something to think about.
I think a venture like this cannot be dove into the way your proposing. Just something to think about.
It would appear that when you are quoting your cost prices you are using retail ! As a business would you not have those parts available to you at a wholesale cost, and once assembled into a complete rifle you would mark up accordingly so that you can earn a living ( I would assume your business plan includes buying in bulk to keep overhead down)?
I hope your venture goes well, best of luck.
I hope your venture goes well, best of luck.
Even if it does sell, doesn't mean you're making money.
Look at all investments and ROI properly.
If you want to really say 1/4moa, better have a tunnel and test stand in a controlled environment.
Also be prepared to pay almost double for machining equipment/tooling vs what the same costs in the US is this weak dollar holds up, though not too much is needed for gun related work thankfully so as little at 20-30k could get a guy going.
Money back in anything gun related is a horrible idea, way too many factors involved.
Look at all investments and ROI properly.
If you want to really say 1/4moa, better have a tunnel and test stand in a controlled environment.
Also be prepared to pay almost double for machining equipment/tooling vs what the same costs in the US is this weak dollar holds up, though not too much is needed for gun related work thankfully so as little at 20-30k could get a guy going.
Money back in anything gun related is a horrible idea, way too many factors involved.
Observing LMAO! Do you take notes in a black book? You sound like an engineer lol!
Shooter1971 might know a thing or two about building custom rifles
I am sure he just "observed" then got his hands dirty and presto! Who needs years of experience lol!
That 3 whot group proves nothing!
Shooter1971 might know a thing or two about building custom rifles
I am sure he just "observed" then got his hands dirty and presto! Who needs years of experience lol!That 3 whot group proves nothing!
If you are going to bother to invest all this time and money, why do something everyone else is already doing? I personally have no interest in yet another round action with a single stack magazine, it's been done a hundred times.
As far as receiver design goes the wide flat bottomed actions of PGW and AI just make more sense to me, they have a wide, flat, even surface for bedding. PGW's design has multiple recoil lugs compared to the run of the mill stuff out there, it's solid as hell. AI uses four action screws and glues/bonds the receiver to the chassis permanently, bomb proof, no bedding. In addition to all this AI also uses dual stack mags which do not hang way down below the rifle but still hold 10 rounds.
And then there is the Win style bolt mounted safety, both of these rifles have it yet almost every custom out there uses that god awful rem trigger safety.
Neither of these two rifles cost 10 grand either. I already own an AIAW and if I ever need another rifle I will buy a PGW because like AI, their receiver design is way ahead of all the others who are still copying the rem 700 concept.
The only thing that has come out in the custom rifle action field lately that's actually new is the GAP Tempest, a 60 degree 3 lug bolt and uses double stack AW mags, nicely done GAP.
As far as receiver design goes the wide flat bottomed actions of PGW and AI just make more sense to me, they have a wide, flat, even surface for bedding. PGW's design has multiple recoil lugs compared to the run of the mill stuff out there, it's solid as hell. AI uses four action screws and glues/bonds the receiver to the chassis permanently, bomb proof, no bedding. In addition to all this AI also uses dual stack mags which do not hang way down below the rifle but still hold 10 rounds.
And then there is the Win style bolt mounted safety, both of these rifles have it yet almost every custom out there uses that god awful rem trigger safety.
Neither of these two rifles cost 10 grand either. I already own an AIAW and if I ever need another rifle I will buy a PGW because like AI, their receiver design is way ahead of all the others who are still copying the rem 700 concept.
The only thing that has come out in the custom rifle action field lately that's actually new is the GAP Tempest, a 60 degree 3 lug bolt and uses double stack AW mags, nicely done GAP.
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Max Owner
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All the nay sayers like to show how smart they are.
PSR: as you have read, big claim to live up to. Good luck with this and look forward to seeing/reading the results of your journey.
PSR: as you have read, big claim to live up to. Good luck with this and look forward to seeing/reading the results of your journey.
- Location
- lloydminster
Then yes your pricing is bang on... If you stay on US dollars. If you convert then ya you're at the 10k mark. Now add in your machine time, your profit margin, your overhead. Never said prices are absurd but rather high for the company you're trying to party with.
We aren't here to bash your dream, we are giving you the hard reality of what it takes to be a solid competitor in this market.
If anything man I'd start by tuning up 700 actions and doing barrel swaps, bedding jobs. you'll make money on those and build a reputation that we can go off of. Otherwise your just another guy saying I can build a more accurate gun than everyone.
Over 45 years I have built many accurate rifles in Benchrest, varmint and hunting and a few for "Precision" shooting...
Most of them shot very well and the customers were happy... and these were all at reasonable prices...Customers supply the parts, I supply the labour. I would never guarantee a specific degree of accuracy, just that I would do my best.
Although many rifles I built were 1/4 minute rifles I would never consider doing a build for anyone if they wanted a guarantee of 1/4 minute accuracy. I would not want the hassle that goes with it.
I can't imagine anyone making money doing it unless the price is steep. The market won't be big.
Most of them shot very well and the customers were happy... and these were all at reasonable prices...Customers supply the parts, I supply the labour. I would never guarantee a specific degree of accuracy, just that I would do my best.
Although many rifles I built were 1/4 minute rifles I would never consider doing a build for anyone if they wanted a guarantee of 1/4 minute accuracy. I would not want the hassle that goes with it.
I can't imagine anyone making money doing it unless the price is steep. The market won't be big.
As to the op's original question, yes there are smiths that do very high end builds with the kind of precision you are talking about.
The guys at insite arms learned from one of the best smiths in North america, and it shows in the way their rifles shoot.
I've got no affiliation with them, but from the ones they've built that I've seen average shooters driving at the range, I've seen some seriously eyebrow raising accuracy, far more so than any of the pgw, ai, atrs, sako, etc.
Only the ga precision rifles I've seen and used could be considered comparable.
The guys at insite arms learned from one of the best smiths in North america, and it shows in the way their rifles shoot.
I've got no affiliation with them, but from the ones they've built that I've seen average shooters driving at the range, I've seen some seriously eyebrow raising accuracy, far more so than any of the pgw, ai, atrs, sako, etc.
Only the ga precision rifles I've seen and used could be considered comparable.
I agree, I happen to know the insite guys very well and the rifles they build are very impressive to say the least. I have personally seen 1/4 Moa groups come from their guns. Does that mean they guarantee 1/4 Moa? I don't think so. To get that kind of group it comes down to the driver. Here is one of their guns that I know is capable of 1/4 Moa groups and it's built with all the parts the op has listed. 
They are very well trained gun smiths and are building some very accurate rifles. But it sure didn't happen over night and they never came out of the gate claiming such bold statements. I wish the op luck but at the prices he's claiming my business will be staying with the guys I know and are well proven. Down range precision, 7mm br manufacturing, insite arms are just a few that come to mind that I personally know are capable of building 1/4 Moa guns.
They are very well trained gun smiths and are building some very accurate rifles. But it sure didn't happen over night and they never came out of the gate claiming such bold statements. I wish the op luck but at the prices he's claiming my business will be staying with the guys I know and are well proven. Down range precision, 7mm br manufacturing, insite arms are just a few that come to mind that I personally know are capable of building 1/4 Moa guns.
