Precision rifle builders in Canada

The problem with 1/X moa garentees is that it's too simplistic of a term to truly describe the accuracy of a rifle. In reality all rifles will shoot a spread. To really describe accuracy you need to shoot at least a 30 round group, and measure the distance between the groups center and each bullet hole, and then compute the average and standard deviation. This is just too much work and too complicated a process for shooters to go through. Furthermore, most people haven't studied statistics so they won't understand this method regardless. This is why the 3 shot 1/2" moa method prevails.

To the op; I applaud your goals but you have to be realistic on how to obtain them. You seem to want to create to create your own brand name of rifles, known for exceptional accuracy. That's a fantastic goal but very difficult to achieve. If you look at many other sucsessful busineses, they started of as smaller business slowly building a customer base and expertise in their field. Only when they had a customer base, were they able to put resources into developing a 'brand name platform' that they could be known for this. Look at the modern hunter by ATRS. They had to develop their business until they had the resources to provide the R&D to develop the modern hunter. And even then, it still involves a great deal of risk.

So the most practical advise to you is just become a gunsmith who specializes in accurate rifles. Build them all and build your customer bases regardless of action type. In you down time, come up with ideas and build prototype parts/actions and see what comes of them. As time goes on, you'll gain the knowledge, experience, and customer base to finally create your brand.

Best of luck to you.
 
For example

Defiance deviant action $1400
Badger dbm $350
Badger efr $300
Proof research barrel $1000
McMillan isn't a4 $1000
Atlas bipod $300
Pelican $300
AAC muzzle break $150
Timney trigger $150
Prices are USD convert those and let me know if u still think my price range is absurd.
Thanks Felipe

So essentially you are not building anything merely assembling parts made by other manufacturers. That will certainly make for lower costs as R&D to actually design and manufacture your own is EXPENSIVE!!

My advice is start small and develop a name based on what you can actually do rather than what you hope to do. It worked for me.
 
google 1/4 minute magnums in the states. they build a 1/4 minute gun however they sure as hell aren't using factory ammo. they actually teach the precision reloading so you can squeeze every bit out of the gun. and they are way under the 7-10k range. if your expecting to pump them out for a big buck it aint gonna happen. my creedmoore is a full custom built on a stiller predator and broughten barrel with a jewel trigger and aics 2.0 stock. I got lucky and have an amazing gun smith and even he was surprised when he shot a .3" group with factory ammo during barrel brake in. the precision you want is possible and can be done for a lot less than 7-10k. im into mine for everything at 3600ish. that includes parts and labour. but don't expect to do it with factory ammo.

so my real question is..... if I can have a rifle build to my specs and built to fit me for 3600 why would I spend 7-10k for a off the rack rifle. I mean the only reason pgw gets the money for theirs is that they build their actions in house which isn't cheap and they are world renowned for building the Canadian sniper rifles. even with that being said I can buy a pgw coyote for under 6000
 
the boys at insite built my creedmore. and Harley was kinda surprised when he did the testing on my rifle. he tried some hornady factory stuff it shot ok bout a 3/4" group 5 shots then he tried the Winchester match ammo and nailed a .3" 5 shot group. we were both more than pleased with this for the first 12 rounds down the pipe. after some extensive load development I personally can only shoot a .4" group. Harley is a far better shooter than I am lol

I agree, I happen to know the insite guys very well and the rifles they build are very impressive to say the least. I have personally seen 1/4 Moa groups come from their guns. Does that mean they guarantee 1/4 Moa? I don't think so. To get that kind of group it comes down to the driver. Here is one of their guns that I know is capable of 1/4 Moa groups and it's built with all the parts the op has listed. View attachment 34819
They are very well trained gun smiths and are building some very accurate rifles. But it sure didn't happen over night and they never came out of the gate claiming such bold statements. I wish the op luck but at the prices he's claiming my business will be staying with the guys I know and are well proven. Down range precision, 7mm br manufacturing, insite arms are just a few that come to mind that I personally know are capable of building 1/4 Moa guns.
 
google 1/4 minute magnums in the states. they build a 1/4 minute gun however they sure as hell aren't using factory ammo. they actually teach the precision reloading so you can squeeze every bit out of the gun. and they are way under the 7-10k range. if your expecting to pump them out for a big buck it aint gonna happen. my creedmoore is a full custom built on a stiller predator and broughten barrel with a jewel trigger and aics 2.0 stock. I got lucky and have an amazing gun smith and even he was surprised when he shot a .3" group with factory ammo during barrel brake in. the precision you want is possible and can be done for a lot less than 7-10k. im into mine for everything at 3600ish. that includes parts and labour. but don't expect to do it with factory ammo.

so my real question is..... if I can have a rifle build to my specs and built to fit me for 3600 why would I spend 7-10k for a off the rack rifle. I mean the only reason pgw gets the money for theirs is that they build their actions in house which isn't cheap and they are world renowned for building the Canadian sniper rifles. even with that being said I can buy a pgw coyote for under 6000
I'd love to see the breakdown of your $3600 rifle.
Using US pricing

Stiller Tac 30. $985
Broughton barrel blank $385
AICS 2.0. $1,000
Timney straight trigger $120
AAC Muzzle brake. $150
Atlas Bipod. $300
AICS Magazine. $90
Farrell Scope Base. $120

I'm at $3150 U.S. Dollars in parts alone even at $850 in labour to chamber, profile, and thread the barrel and assemble the rifle.
That would put you at $4000 minimum.
That does not include shipping for any parts to the gunsmith. $200
That does not include export paperwork and shipping for the completed rifle. $500
That does not include a case for the rifle $300
That puts you at $5000

$5,000usd=$6,495cad at today's exchange.
 
I'd love to see the breakdown of your $3600 rifle.
Using US pricing

Stiller Tac 30. $985
Broughton barrel blank $385
AICS 2.0. $1,000
Timney straight trigger $120
AAC Muzzle brake. $150
Atlas Bipod. $300
AICS Magazine. $90
Farrell Scope Base. $120

I'm at $3150 U.S. Dollars in parts alone even at $850 in labour to chamber, profile, and thread the barrel and assemble the rifle.
That would put you at $4000 minimum.
That does not include shipping for any parts to the gunsmith. $200
That does not include export paperwork and shipping for the completed rifle. $500
That does not include a case for the rifle $300
That puts you at $5000

$5,000usd=$6,495cad at today's exchange.

The aics 2.0 was sourced of Cgn used.
I bought everything in canadian dollars before the dollar tanked. And since in in canada I use canadian dollars but here's the break down.
Stiller predator 1300
Jewel trigger 285
Broughten barrel 700
Aics 2.0 used 750
Chambering 400
Ceracoated 300
Total is 3735. Roughly I could dig out my receipts but may take awhile to find them. This is in canadian dollars. The rifle like I said was bought and paid for long before the dollar tanked and is in canadian dollars. But like I said its 3600ish canadian.
 
Oh and I had all the parts shipped to me and I live in the same town as my gunsmith so I literally drove 10 blocks to his shop. I didn't have to pay any exportation fees cause I bought stuff that was in stock in canada already. And a gun case isn't a gun part so I'm not gonna include that. There is no brake needed cause its a 17lb rifle in 6.5 creedmoor.
 
Yup, and I would say they are pretty darn accurate. Some of the best in class for an off the shelf weapon.
I googled it. Doesn't look like they build a lefty action. So I couldnt shoot it and enjoy it I'd spend to much time coming off the gun to enjoy it.
Oh and for the guy who was asking about my break down I found my bill from ### international. My stiller predator jewel trigger and 20moa rail came out to 1326.70 cdn
 
I googled it. Doesn't look like they build a lefty action. So I couldnt shoot it and enjoy it I'd spend to much time coming off the gun to enjoy it.
Oh and for the guy who was asking about my break down I found my bill from ### international. My stiller predator jewel trigger and 20moa rail came out to 1326.70 cdn

Yes they do, I get mine in less than 2 weeks.
 
there are some cartridges that are - for all practical purposes - incapable of .25 MOA, and the rest can only get there with meticulous load development. Making a guarantee like that to a bunch of guys with thick wallets and no experience is a recipe for a headache.
 
Over 45 years I have built many accurate rifles in Benchrest, varmint and hunting and a few for "Precision" shooting...

Most of them shot very well and the customers were happy... and these were all at reasonable prices...Customers supply the parts, I supply the labour. I would never guarantee a specific degree of accuracy, just that I would do my best.

Although many rifles I built were 1/4 minute rifles I would never consider doing a build for anyone if they wanted a guarantee of 1/4 minute accuracy. I would not want the hassle that goes with it.

I can't imagine anyone making money doing it unless the price is steep. The market won't be big.
Best story yet. I would also never guarantee 1/4 MOA. Barrel makers cannot guarantee that for each and every barrel and most shooters cannot shoot that good.
 
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