pressure change with different components (shotgun shells)

hitch.bd

hitch.bd

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I am hopeing one of the shotshell reloading gurus will help me out here.
Firstly the calmer...I always stick to the reloading manuals and follow the load data. (till now)
I have a 5th Edition Lyman Shotshell reloading handbook that I use for all my shotshell reloading data. I tried to reload #000 buckshot with the recomended 30grs -800X
fed 209A prmr
WAA12R wad
9 pellets #000 buck
No matter how you stack them there is no way to fit 9 pellets into the hull. so I only put 7 pellets in. Worked fine , patterned well ...I'll stick with it unless someone has another "receipe" to try.
BUT
This being said, I have: 2000+ Federal fiber wads .25" thick ring waxed
2000+ Federal card wads .080" thick
2000+ Federal card wads .045" thick
The Lyman #5 has nothing using the above components.
I would like to use the above to reload #00 or #000 buckshot.
THE QUESTION
does anyone have any data using fiber wads. OR does anyone know if the pressure would change dramatically by changing wads.
Please enlighten me on the acceptable data modifications that will not endanger anyone or anything.
The thing that gets me is, these are modern components in modern packaging so why is it so hard to find any data for them.
thanks, Hitch
 
-What is the hull ur trying to load.
-The wad might be too tall for the hull shot combo.
-U could try roll crimp with a card on top, u will be able to close that one for sure.
 
Fibre Wads

Look on Page 348 in your Lyman #5.

At the bottom is a recipe for 12 pellets of 00 using mostly fibre wads and a BP BPGS with Federal 3" plastic cases.

The Ballistic Products BPGS is a plastic over powder wad gas sealer, similar to the old Alcan PGS wad.

In theory, you should be able to replace the BPGS with two nitro cards. Since the nitro cards are less efficient at sealing gas, the resulting load should/may result in a safe load with less velocity and pressure.

I would also suggest reducing the powder charge 10% and working up.

You can play with the fibre column height to get a good fold or roll crimp.
 
mckutzy said:
-What is the hull ur trying to load.
-The wad might be too tall for the hull shot combo.
-U could try roll crimp with a card on top, u will be able to close that one for sure.
Click to expand...
Sorry I should have mentioned that... The Lyman #5 says Federal Gold Medal Plastic cases -fold crimped
Now if I get the kind of answers that I am looking for I may get daring and try to change to Remington or Winchester compression one piece hulls as I have wat more of these.
I don't have a roll crimper...might have to look into investing in one I guess
Thanks mckutzy you've given me things to think about
 
Ken T said:
Look on Page 348 in your Lyman #5.

At the bottom is a recipe for 12 pellets of 00 using mostly fibre wads and a BP BPGS with Federal 3" plastic cases.

The Ballistic Products BPGS is a plastic over powder wad gas sealer, similar to the old Alcan PGS wad.

In theory, you should be able to replace the BPGS with two nitro cards. Since the nitro cards are less efficient at sealing gas, the resulting load should/may result in a safe load with less velocity and pressure.

I would also suggest reducing the powder charge 10% and working up.

You can play with the fibre column height to get a good fold or roll crimp.
Click to expand...
Ok, I see where you are looking, I haven't actually looked into the 3" section of the book.
I guess I should have given more background... I am using my MEC 8567 2 3/4" progressive in single stage application. this hinders me from doing 3" shells.
This experiment ,If that is what I should call it, was to use up some of the excess components that I have.
Typically I only reload shotshells for trap shooting. But I have all these components and a desire to learn but without blowing any body parts off!!
Thank-you, Ken T. tour comments have got me thinking about the fiber wads and nitro cards being less of a seal than the plastic wads. ti also gives me an idea of maybe cutting the "wings" off some of the wads to mimic the BPGS.


Please , if you have any more ideas shoot them this way. I tend to over ANALize and over think things when it comes to deviating from common guidelines.
 
Im tryin to locate a roll crimper cheaply here in bc, I will be doing more of a search later on and let know when I do. I know of a few reloading outfits that sell them but in the states but IDK about the shipping them to canada.
 
mckutzy said:
Im tryin to locate a roll crimper cheaply here in bc, I will be doing more of a search later on and let know when I do. I know of a few reloading outfits that sell them but in the states but IDK about the shipping them to canada.
Click to expand...

cool, thanks man! I'm going to Vancouver tomorrow. I may have some time to look around there as well. I'm not sure if the place I'll be staying has wi-fi or not. If im out of contact for a week please dont think Im being an A$$.
 
This is out of Lyman #2:

Winchester AA Compression Formed
IMR SR 4756 33.5 grains
Alcan 220 Max-Fire primer (I would sub. with Win209 to be super safe)
One Alcan PGS
Two Alcan .135 cards
8 pellets 000 buck
1315 fps
9,600 LUP

Winchester AA's are readily available.
The Two Alcan .135 make .27, so you could sub. your Federal .25 fibre or stack your .08 and .045 nitro cards.

And still replace the Alcan PGS with one or two nitro cards as well. If I have time, I'll measure a Ballistic Products BPGS and see what it's thickness measure out too.

A short search on the internet seems to indicate that the Alcan220 was considered a hot primer, so you maybe able to swap it with a Federal 209A.

And, as always, start with a 10% reduced powder charge and work up.

Cheers!
 
Ken T said:
And, as always, start with a 10% reduced powder charge and work up.
Cheers!
Click to expand...

Ken

Using a reduced charge and working up are used in metallic reloading only. That is used because a reloader can inspect the fired brass for signs of overpressure. A shotgun hull will not give you these signs. That is why it is so critical to follow shotgun reloading data to the "T" and check your powder and shot weights. Any component substitutions should be done with a component known to produce equivalent or lower pressures in a load. for example using a Winchester 209 in place of a Federal 209A should be safe. The only way to know if a load with too many unknown components has a safe pressure is to have a few sent off for pressure testing.

To the OP. FWIW I would stick to a wad with plastic fingers if I were you. WAAAYY back when a buddy and and I were hunting rabbits. He shot at one with his shotgun using IVI shells with large buckshot. We could see in the snow where the pellets went and were shocked. The pattern out of his full choke was more like Improved Cylinder. We dug around in the snow and found several pellets. They shaped more like crushed rock then pellets. One side showed clean lead and a nice round surface where it had scrubbed the bore.

It all depends on what you want your shells to do. If you are just wanting to shoot at the range then you are probably all right. If you are wanting them for a use where you expect results, you should load up a few and pattern them to see what they are doing. Saving a few cents on a shell and compromising the performance is a poor trade off.

John
 
I have no doubt that you are correct, I just mention reducing powder charge to be extra safe, the worse that should happen is a blooper load.

I do not know of any place in Canada doing pressure testing?



R&R Rancher said:
Ken

Using a reduced charge and working up are used in metallic reloading only. That is used because a reloader can inspect the fired brass for signs of overpressure. A shotgun hull will not give you these signs. That is why it is so critical to follow shotgun reloading data to the "T" and check your powder and shot weights. Any component substitutions should be done with a component known to produce equivalent or lower pressures in a load. for example using a Winchester 209 in place of a Federal 209A should be safe. The only way to know if a load with too many unknown components has a safe pressure is to have a few sent off for pressure testing.


John
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for all the input guys. I am definately not serious enough about using up these components to send any loads in to have them tested.
 
Ken T said:
I have no doubt that you are correct, I just mention reducing powder charge to be extra safe, the worse that should happen is a blooper load.

I do not know of any place in Canada doing pressure testing?
Click to expand...

Just an FYI guys,

The Lee data that came with my slug mould has a note on the bottom to reduce the powder charge by 10% if swapping anything from each listed load. Does that apply to slugs only?
 
Cactus said:
Just an FYI guys,

The Lee data that came with my slug mould has a note on the bottom to reduce the powder charge by 10% if swapping anything from each listed load. Does that apply to slugs only?
Click to expand...

I'd say it is a good practice to reduce loads any time you are delving into the unknown. IMO the only time squib loads are dangerous is if you don't clear the barrel before trying to do a follow up shot...and now to be corrected:popCorn:
 
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