Pressure signs

yomomma

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So after some fun with my M305 I came home and inspected my brass. I had two cases which showed signs of over pressure. Primers on both were flattened. I measure the brass and the length was 2.035 on both.

Both were American Eagle .308. . PPU 7.62 showed no sign.
 
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I had the same problem with A.E. The stuff I had wouldn't even eject ! I had to kickstart the cases out of the chamber. Never had a problem with any other brand or handloads.
My solution was to junk the A.E. I think others on here have had issues with A.E also.
 
I had a full box of fusion do they same thing with visible stretch lines in the brass didn't realize it untill I was done .. Never again
 
Just checked 50-70 casings of AE .308 and didn't see anything like that. I assume a flattened primer would completely fill any space between the primer and casing? So the rounded edges of the primer would be gone?
 
Flattened primers might be symptoms of high pressure. Then again, they might not be.
Got a micrometer? Not a CT digital calliper, but a micrometer? Measure the diameter of these fired cases just above the extraction groove, compare the measurement with unfired cases. If the solid portion of the caseheads is expanding, pressures are high.
How is the headspace in the rifle? This can also cause flattened primers, with loads producing normal pressure.
 
Almost all "Pressure Signs" are completely subjective and hence deceptive. The only Pressure Sign I trust is loosened primer pockets. Case Head expansion is a good indicator, but only if you have a baseline to compare it against, as some brass is simply soft.

For me the best indicator of excessive pressure is excessive Muzzle Velocity (MV), but it seems that 90% of handloaders refuse to buy one.

All said, I very much doubt that the factory ammo you used is "over pressure", but knowing the MV's you got would be a start.
 
I actually brought my chrony but was not able to use it lying prone.(set up on a hill shooting into a gully) Now that the scope is reasonably sighted in I can focus on the chrony.

I have 3 empties enroute to Hungry for measurement.

I suspect its the soft metal, but am worried about case length although norcs usually have generous chambers.
 
Lot's of ideas here about determining pressure... Loudness tells you nothing and in this case neither does velocity. You can have a slow load and still have excessive pressure if the powder burn rate is fast. Andy is on the right track, but I would rotate the gas valve to shut off the auto load and then manually cycle the action when you shoot. Pay close attention to the effort required to extract the fired case. Look for what bolt action shooters refer to as "stiff bolt lift". That is an indicator that tells you the pressure exceeded the elasticity of the brass so it does not spring back and becomes difficult to extract. If it is difficult to get the bolt to rotate, you have an overly hot load. If you are getting stiff bolt lift, then as Andy indicated, primer pockets will be stretched.

If you are not getting stiff bolt lift, then your pressures are probably OK, although looking at your primers, you are definitely on the hot side. On the other hand, the primers could just be very soft.

Even if your pressures are high, I wouldn't just junk the ammo. If you can afford a little extra length without jamming in the magazine, just extend the bullet seating depth maybe .020". That will increase the case volume and reduce your pressures.

Worst case scenario is pull the bullets and take a grain of powder out of each, then seat the bullet again.

One more place you might want to look is your barrel. If you have a lot of rounds through it without a real good cleaning, you could have some crud build up and/or heat checking in the throat. If this is the case, your pressures will rise as the bullet enters the rifling. The fix for this is to simply give your barrel a good cleaning, especially in the throat area. You could just use a bronze brush, or a trick some target shooters use is a patch of very fine scotch brite, maybe 1000 to 1500 grit. If you have a problem it will bite hard at first, but as you short stroke it through, it will smooth everything out, remove the crud and get easier to push. While 1000 grit is too fine to cause rifling damage I would not do this too often, maybe every 300-500 rounds. The trick with scotch brite is to start from the breach, never the muzzle.
 
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Re the "stiff bolt" situation.
I routinely shoot with the gas turned off on my gun. Primarily this was to slow down my ammo consumption and secondly to enforce better discipline on my part. The surprising benefits were better groups and better control by myself. Lots of reasons for this I expect, cooler barrel etc.
I strongly believe had this not been my preference I would have experienced a major malfunction while I was using the A.E stuff. I could not eject a brand new case without resorting to standing on charging handle ( op rod ) If I had been on semi I wouldn't have noticed a thing. To make sure this wasnt a problem wiith the gun itself I tore it apart on the firing line and checked everything out. Luckily I had a choice of ammo and with caution tried all my other stuff,with the gas system off, and not a single problem.
I would strongly recommend sending a few through with your gas system off..........you really can feel whats going on. My handloads and all other brands of factory ammo perform well.
I tossed the A.E stuff when I had four F.T.Es out of that one box. Sadly I just tossed the brass in the garbage can. Wish now that I hadn't, would love to have that brass to look at more closely..
 
Doesn't matter if the gas is on or off. With it on, the gas system didn't have enough power to eject, and it if did, it might not cycle all the way back and chamber a new round. I have 60 empty casings and you can't even get them back in the chamber they are too tight.
 
Doesn't matter if the gas is on or off. With it on, the gas system didn't have enough power to eject, and it if did, it might not cycle all the way back and chamber a new round. I have 60 empty casings and you can't even get them back in the chamber they are too tight.

That's scary!
 
Doesn't matter if the gas is on or off. With it on, the gas system didn't have enough power to eject, and it if did, it might not cycle all the way back and chamber a new round. I have 60 empty casings and you can't even get them back in the chamber they are too tight.

The action cycle of these rifles is so fast that a case can be extracted from the chamber before it has fully expanded. It's one of the reasons why it's sooo important to properly resize your brass to avoid the possibility of an out of battery fire and ensure flawless feeding. This could explain why your fired cases won't chamber.
 
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