Primer flow

tokguy

tokguy

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New to this sort of firearm. Had a Mare's leg ( horrible canoe accident took it from me...luck to be alive:)).
Thank goodness I was able to source a good unit with more 'Social license'. Got a Destroyer... gonna call it a Bunny Hugger so as to stay off the radar.
Mine is 9 x 23...factory stuff with Berdan Priming is gtg...did some reloading with already primed pistol brass 9 x 23 SH.
Getting crazy primer flow until reprimed with Small Rifle primers.
Is this a thing with these units? Mare's leg in 44 didn't flow, even with brisk load. Mind you, it is a High pressure cartridge...primers are tougher undeniably. Are small pistol notoriously weak... 9 x 23 SH ( Bergman, Largo etc) are likely lower pressures for sure.
Anyone else experience this?
5.5 gr 231 / 123 gr 9mm FMJ / Pistol primer
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5.0 gr 231 / 123 gr 9mm FMJ / Pistol primer
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5.5 gr 231 / 123 gr 9mm FMJ / Rifle primer
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Reading primers is barely an educated guess at best. I would posit your Steyr brass is illustrating the extra room it has with a bit of flow off your softer primers.
 
B said:
Reading primers is barely an educated guess at best. I would posit your Steyr brass is illustrating the extra room it has with a bit of flow off your softer primers.
Click to expand...

Oh, that is a confusing answer IMO.
Thanks, I suppose. Small Rifle primers fixed it...but thanks for the input?
 
I had it in my head you weren't completely new. I can see from re-reading your post that I am wrong. Use the right ammunition or brass and primers will stop flowing. Using SR seems to have worked too.

9x23 is not all the same, sounds like you are using 9x23 Steyr brass in your Largo chambered gun. It will work safely but it can still move around a lot. Seems like an obvious thing to myself but I shouldn't have assumed you'd understand. Some pistol primers are also softer than others of course, but I'd put my money on what I said.
 
B said:
Reading primers is barely an educated guess at best. ....
Click to expand...

Agreed. But I will say that a photo of what the OP is talking about will still give us a little more to talk about.

It always surprises me how many pistol cartridge reloaders assume they are in the black as long as they don't have primer flow (which sometimes means different things to different people anyway).
 
I would expect pistol primers to perform poorly in a rifle... usually leakage not just 'flow'. Small rifle primers are much harder requiring the force of a rifle firing pin and stand much more pressure. Small pistol primers are quite soft (and weak) due to a less powerful firing pin strike.
 
Thanks Folks.
Yes; I know that 9mm SH is different than 9mm Bergmann. But being that they are interchangeable in this unit, and I only had a couple boxes of Largo ammo... it got used and works well, better after getting rifle primers in there.
Thanks for your concern 'B' ( I did notice the not witty comment...you be you though), but I am from the Wieland school of thought. Sometimes you have to make do...headstamps don't match...that's fine.
I knew why the primers were flowing...I was curious as to whether this phenomena was seen in other PPC units in similar cartridges; 9 x 19 or 45 ACP come to mind. I'm supposing the Berdan system must mitigate the primer flow as 9mm Largo is a pistol round but exhibits Zero primer flow in this Carbine.

PS; if someone actually has experience with this carbine, mention it...please. I value actual experience much more than regurgitating Google - Foo. I can do Google - Foo thanks
 
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Berdan primer is irrelevant. That stuff fits your chamber properly and it's also very likely a pretty hard primer compared to commercial pistol primers. You saw no flow with the SR because they were hard enough not to do it. It's been over a decade since my last but I have owned more than one Destroyer, does that help?

Headspace issues are also a root cause of primer flow and blanking. Since your brass is nearly a full 0.010" shorter it has a lot of room to move in what is already a generous chamber. If your brass was staying still it wouldn't be flowing so much and certainly wouldn't be blanking. It's a combination of things, all easy to fix.
 
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B said:
Berdan primer is irrelevant. That stuff fits your chamber properly and it's also very likely a pretty hard primer compared to commercial pistol primers. You saw no flow with the SR because they were hard enough not to do it. It's been over a decade since my last but I have owned more than one Destroyer, does that help?

Headspace issues are also a root cause of primer flow and blanking. Since your brass is nearly a full 0.010" shorter it has a lot of room to move in what is already a generous chamber.
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Makes me smile as I've pretty much sworn off arguing on here...it's a poor look, at least on me... I hate doing it and ain't scared to own up to being a 'Dink' when I do it.
Funny thing is, I've had people tell me ( via PM) they have ran pretty much anything that fits...and successfully.
I would retort that the small rifle primer fixed it quite handily, no?
I've bought rifles with 'Bad Headspace' that worked fine... generous firing pin hole in bolt head allowed an 8 x 57 to show classic pressure signs... with no over pressure.
Other than a tight bolt, what would you consider to be 1st warning signs of over pressure? Honest question.
The Destroyer topic counts if you reloaded for it mind you. Gonna talk the talk... I gotta walk the walk.

Edit; The 'headspace difference' bus just left the station BTW. 9mm Largo ( Starline) is .898" OAL and 9mm SH .895" OAL. Depth of rim recess SH .336 and Largo is .320...that is a difference of .008 as far as the extractor is concerned. Both unfired.
Want to be carefully throwing down on cartridge dimensions. I ran virgin Starline 38 LC through two different 1892's. That stuff came out like Lil coke bottles...cracked a fair amount too.
Why I look for folks who've done it...WIKI will lead you astray.
 
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Only the OAL really matters since it headspaces on the mouth. I did get the dimensions off Google, no way I can recall that after so long. I did not say the gun has bad headspace, if your cartridge case is too short you can't have "proper" headspace. A gun's extractor often takes up some of the slack if its significant but that's not typically the case with the Destroyer and Steyr brass.

It presents no real issue here, aside from blanked primers possibly leaving marks. I had one I set up for .38 Super among a couple rough but servicable examples. The guns can be pretty strong but the way they were made leaves massive variations in fit and quality.

Your use of SR is a fix of course, it's one of the simple things I was getting at. Were you using Federal SP? I will admit I am likely wrong here but it was hardly a wild guess. Your photos help clear things up too.
 
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I played with a couple of these around 20 years ago. Converted one to 9x19 by setting the barrel back and re-headspacing, and the other was re-barreled to 45ACP. I never shot one in the factory chambering. One fellow told me you can even shoot .38 Super Auto cartridges through these...

At any rate, if the headspace is close...then check and measure your firing pin protrusion. As I view the pics of your brass, I see them showing a fairly deep protrusion, in fact; the pic of the first case appears as though the primers blown. Although, it might just be an "optical delusion" on my part.
 
jakester said:
I played with a couple of these around 20 years ago. Converted one to 9x19 by setting the barrel back and re-headspacing, and the other was re-barreled to 45ACP. I never shot one in the factory chambering. One fellow told me you can even shoot .38 Super Auto cartridges through these...

At any rate, if the headspace is close...then check and measure your firing pin protrusion. As I view the pics of your brass, I see them showing a fairly deep protrusion, in fact; the pic of the first case appears as though the primers blown. Although, it might just be an "optical delusion" on my part.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. Wish I remembered which pistol primers I used...they sure are soft. Initially I wanted to know if this phenomena manifested it's self in other flavors... 9mm Luger being a good example. We all know that there was no difference between 9 x 19 loads ( tongue in cheek statement there... usually someone knows with certainty that "there are no subgun loads" )...assuming the same song gets played for 9 x 23 Largo.
No subgun loads means the pistol loads should be tailored to the carbine as well...IMO opinion of course
Thanks for the constructive input Jake
 
At least the 5.5 gr,sealed off the primer hole!....just a thought, did you size your primer holes? The brass don't look that great..for Hornady...maybe different batches? Primer holes look out of round...but could be from the primer blowback.
 
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