Primers for .308
- Thread starter Nickoslav
- Start date
Hierarchy as in size or performance?
For diameter there are large and small.
For height there are rifle and pistol.
308 normally use a large rifle primer but some specialty brass use small rifle primers (these are very rare, only ones I know of are Lapua Palma match brass).
Different brands have different thicknesses of cups as well. Generally Federal are the thinnest and will flatten a the lowest pressure. CCI are among the thickest. When they flatten doesn't mean much of anything.
Many primers also come in "magnum" versions which means they burn longer and/or hotter to better ignite slower burning powders. These are generally used in larger cartridges. Some say you should use a magnum primers above 50gr of powder but I've not noticed a difference. Some also say you should use magnum primers in cold weather but I've never found a need to in my experience.
Different brands will have different volumes/intensities of flame for the same primer type. What this boils down to is that you need to develop a load with one type of primer and try to maintain it. For example I developed my accuracy 308 load with CCI large rifle primers and when I switched to Winchester when I couldn't find CCI's for a while they were much worse.
For quality there are "benchrest" or "match" primers that are supposed to be more consistent and produce better accuracy. I personally don't notice a difference but I'd rate myself as a skilled amateur, not a professional match shooter. Benchrest/match primers have the same burn characteristics as the regular versions of that primer type but are made by more experienced staff and have higher quality-control levels (or so the story goes). So a "large rifle match" primer from CCI (called a BR-2 or Bench Rest - 2) will produce the same pressure as a normal "large rifle" primer. Federal makes a large rifle magnum match primer which is the same ignition-wise as their large rifle magnums.
For diameter there are large and small.
For height there are rifle and pistol.
308 normally use a large rifle primer but some specialty brass use small rifle primers (these are very rare, only ones I know of are Lapua Palma match brass).
Different brands have different thicknesses of cups as well. Generally Federal are the thinnest and will flatten a the lowest pressure. CCI are among the thickest. When they flatten doesn't mean much of anything.
Many primers also come in "magnum" versions which means they burn longer and/or hotter to better ignite slower burning powders. These are generally used in larger cartridges. Some say you should use a magnum primers above 50gr of powder but I've not noticed a difference. Some also say you should use magnum primers in cold weather but I've never found a need to in my experience.
Different brands will have different volumes/intensities of flame for the same primer type. What this boils down to is that you need to develop a load with one type of primer and try to maintain it. For example I developed my accuracy 308 load with CCI large rifle primers and when I switched to Winchester when I couldn't find CCI's for a while they were much worse.
For quality there are "benchrest" or "match" primers that are supposed to be more consistent and produce better accuracy. I personally don't notice a difference but I'd rate myself as a skilled amateur, not a professional match shooter. Benchrest/match primers have the same burn characteristics as the regular versions of that primer type but are made by more experienced staff and have higher quality-control levels (or so the story goes). So a "large rifle match" primer from CCI (called a BR-2 or Bench Rest - 2) will produce the same pressure as a normal "large rifle" primer. Federal makes a large rifle magnum match primer which is the same ignition-wise as their large rifle magnums.
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The Federal primer is noticeably more sensitive than other brands. The sensitive primer can cause a slam fire. So I suggest any primer other than federal.
I have heard recent comments about poor quality of Winchester primers. If true, that it too bad because I used to get very good results with the Winchester.
If you use ball powder, I suggest CCI Magnum primer, or the standard Remington.
If you load extruded powder, any primer except Federal.
I have used 20,000 Russian primers (extruded powder) and found them cheap and reliable.
I have heard recent comments about poor quality of Winchester primers. If true, that it too bad because I used to get very good results with the Winchester.
If you use ball powder, I suggest CCI Magnum primer, or the standard Remington.
If you load extruded powder, any primer except Federal.
I have used 20,000 Russian primers (extruded powder) and found them cheap and reliable.
I've only heard of issues with Federal primers and semi's if they have a floating firing pin (military style semi's). Even then it's mostly people saying it's a possibility with a couple undocumented anecdotes at most as proof. It is theoretically possible if the primer is soft/thin/sensitive enough.
*edit*
Did some Googling and most reports of slamfires are in AR-15's and M1 Garands. The AR-15 can apparently easily slamfire if the firing pin protrusion is too much/not to listed specs.
Also several reports of Winchester primers "causing" slamfires in guns of questionable assembly/maintenance.
They are often accompanied with all sorts of "mandatory" advice like how you "must" use a small base die to reload for a semi and you "need" to use cartridge gauges on every reloaded round before chambering.
At the very least, based on unverified anecdotes, you need several factors to combine together to cause a slamfire. One of those factors appears to be soft/sensitive primers.
*edit*
Did some Googling and most reports of slamfires are in AR-15's and M1 Garands. The AR-15 can apparently easily slamfire if the firing pin protrusion is too much/not to listed specs.
Also several reports of Winchester primers "causing" slamfires in guns of questionable assembly/maintenance.
They are often accompanied with all sorts of "mandatory" advice like how you "must" use a small base die to reload for a semi and you "need" to use cartridge gauges on every reloaded round before chambering.
At the very least, based on unverified anecdotes, you need several factors to combine together to cause a slamfire. One of those factors appears to be soft/sensitive primers.
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I said "... can cause a slamfire..." Not "...will cause a slamfire..."
Saying you have not yet had one is like saying you haven't yet had a fatal accident.
The object of sharing this information is so that others don't have to re-learn what others have already discovered.
I have not had a slamfire in a M14. I have had one in a SKS and in a Rem 740. Lucky for me the guns were locked when they fired.
Both were slam fires were Federal primers. Years ago I used Federal primers almost exclusively. I still have a few cases and use them in some bolt rifles.
Federal primers are noticeably more sensitive than other brands. They use a different priming compound, I think. I have a pistol (FMK) with a weak striker and Federal is the only brand of primer that will ignite reliably. Some brands are as poor as 20% ignition.
Saying you have not yet had one is like saying you haven't yet had a fatal accident.
The object of sharing this information is so that others don't have to re-learn what others have already discovered.
I have not had a slamfire in a M14. I have had one in a SKS and in a Rem 740. Lucky for me the guns were locked when they fired.
Both were slam fires were Federal primers. Years ago I used Federal primers almost exclusively. I still have a few cases and use them in some bolt rifles.
Federal primers are noticeably more sensitive than other brands. They use a different priming compound, I think. I have a pistol (FMK) with a weak striker and Federal is the only brand of primer that will ignite reliably. Some brands are as poor as 20% ignition.
I found a pile of conflicting information on that when I searched for slamfires. Some saying military regulations say it's only to be used in bolt action rifles and others saying they are loaded with special milspec match primers made by Federal that aren't sold to the public. One guy said they are used in the AR-10's that the army has which have spring loaded firing pins instead of free floating ones. Some guys said they are loaded with IMR4064 powder but other reports say they use special additives to reduce muzzle flash and it's a special powder not sold to the public. Also the original M118LR, when replaced by Federal as the manufacturer, became the Mk.360 Mod.0 cartridge but I can't find any info on that cartridge designation. Lots of conflicting information, no documented evidence.
As a further anecdote I can say from personal experience that the Federal 7.62x51NATO ammo I bought a box of once did not have the primers flatten after firing like regular civilian brand Federal ammo always does. This to me could possibly mean they might have harder primers on their milspec ammo? It wasn't M118LR though so who knows.
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You will get as many opinions as to the "best primers" as you will opinions on "the one true religion".
I, as well as several others I've talked to, notice no difference between CCI regular large rifle primers and their BR-2's which are twice the price some places.
Others swear by BR-2's as being the best match grade primer on the market and much better than regular CCI primers.
There are probably just as many others who will swear that Federal Gold Medal Match primers and say they are much better than anything CCI makes.
Yet others will say how Winchester primers are by far the best on the market and CCI and Federal are overpriced hogwash.
With opinions like these I would say it's possible that highly accurate loads can be achieved by any of the primers available on the market. I developed my best loads with CCI and they got worse with Winchester primers. If I redid my development with Winchester primers I might be able to match the accuracy of my CCI loads using a slightly different amount of powder.
The normal top contenders for "best primer" in terms of accuracy and consistency are CCI BR's (Bench Rest) and Federal GMM's (Gold Medal Match). This is normally for extreme accuracy and/or long range shooting with top tier marksmen. If you're skills are closer to average you might not be good enough to notice any difference between match and regular primers (I'm not).
With regular CCI large rifle primers, 168gr SMK's, a mostly stock Remington 700 (polished action and Timney trigger only modifications), using H4895, and Hornady 308 Match brass I can shoot a hair under 1" at 200yds on a good day (slightly better than 0.5 MoA). Most days it's closer to 0.75 MoA and on a bad day in or around 1 MoA. I've tried CCI BR primers and noticed no difference so stuck with the cheaper ones.
Use Palma brass, and small rifle magnum primers...........
Really..... Work up your load with what you have on hand.... If the results leave you wanting, change something.....
It's called load development..... Good load development isn't fast tracked IMO....
Really..... Work up your load with what you have on hand.... If the results leave you wanting, change something.....
It's called load development..... Good load development isn't fast tracked IMO....
Any good places to find new brass, palma, lapua et al? So far for me Cabela's seems to have the greatest selection of everything from bullets to rpimer to brass. I've dealt with Hirsch for lapua products before and they are great but it is strictly lapua.
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Doesn't matter what brand you use as long as it's Large Rifle. However, you must work up the load for each rifle. The chances of both shooting one load well are slim. You can use the same brass though. The Semi will require FL resizing anyway. Been doing it for eons with .30-06.
You need to use either small base or FL dies for a semi. Difference is the SB dies size a few thou smaller. Some AR's supposedly like SB more than FL.
Slam fires are caused by improperly loaded ammo. Usually incorrectly seated primers, but not the primer itself or the rifle.
You need to use either small base or FL dies for a semi. Difference is the SB dies size a few thou smaller. Some AR's supposedly like SB more than FL.
Slam fires are caused by improperly loaded ammo. Usually incorrectly seated primers, but not the primer itself or the rifle.
