Problem Chambering Cases in Custom Barreled 22 PPC

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Scragbait

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Hello Gunsmith Thread Readers

I intend to contact the builder of this rifle but since its Christmas and I'll have to wait for that, I thought I'd post my problem here and see what you think. Here's the scoop.

I bought a very nice rebarrelled Ruger #1 in 22PPC. I bought it unfired with the new barrel although the rifle did have a past life in another chambering. I was preparing some reloads to do a barrel break-in and I used an RCBS full length resizing die on some used cases. The die was properly set to make gentle but firm contact with the shell holder at the peak of the press travel. Now here's my problem; the sized cases will not go far enough into the chamber to close the action. I would say that the rim protrudes .030" to .040" past the end of the chamber. I tried some handloads that came with the rifle and the action still wouldn't close. I tried some Sako factory loads and they will chamber - snug but the breechblock will close. I only tried this on one cartridge. So here's a list of questions:

- Should I be worried that the rifle needs some surgery to correct headspace? Is it possible that an error was made and it's out of spec? If an error exists, who would be accountable, the barrel maker or the gunsmith who fitted the barrel to the action?

- Could it be that the barrel (McLelland I think, have to check) has a match chamber and the tolerances between it and the RCBS die results in a no-fit situation? Should I see the sizing die as the problem and not the gun? I would assume that reloading dies are conservative and made to size cases so that they will feed into any chamber that meets spec.

- Do I have to look at buying some match grade 22PPC dies (Redding?) with those inserts that allow me to bump the shoulder until it's just right? I was planning on buying neck sizing dies but I need a full length resizing die regardless. I'd rather pay for dies then for remachining the chamber.

- Is this problem typical for customized rifles fitted with match barrels?

Thanks for any insights you can post. I was looking forward to taking it out for a break-in but looks like it has to sit in the safe instead while I figure this out.
 
All the possible reasons you stated can be factors in your problem. The logical step would be to backtrack and find out exactly what chamber dimensions you have in your rifle. Trying any other route will only delay your response to your dilema. The gunsmith who did the work has to clarifly what was done. Do not spend any money on dies or anything else until you know what the problem is, talk to the gunsmith.
bigbull
 
P.p.c.

Its not unusual to find PPC chambers with variences in neck diameters, which could have been ordered that way by the origonal purchaser/experimenter. A tight neck chamber and a standard die would definatly give an interference fit. So there's one possibility for protruding cases. David.
 
Scragbait said:
Now here's my problem; the sized cases will not go far enough into the chamber to close the action. I would say that the rim protrudes .030" to .040" past the end of the chamber. I tried some handloads that came with the rifle and the action still wouldn't close. I tried some Sako factory loads and they will chamber - snug but the breechblock will close.
Click to expand...

The barrel maker has absolutely nothing to do with this. It is either the gunsmith or yourself that hold the responsibility. Factory ammo chambers and your reloads do not... who's at fault?

Do the sized cases stick in the chamber or do they fall out easily? If they fall out easily it is not a body diameter problem. Are the handloads that came with the rifle jamming on the bullet?

Careful measuring of the Sako case and your reloads should tell you where the problem lies... I would venture a guess at this point, but either the neck length or the neck diameter is your problem.
 
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Just to be sure we are understanding the problem, are you trying to chamber full-length sized cases only, or ammo that has been loaded after fully sizing the case?

If sized cases will chamber, but not after seating a bullet, then it is definitely the neck diameter of the chamber.

Ted
 
To answer some questions...

I was chambering empty sized cases from the RCBS full-length sizing die. They were not loaded - good thing I checked first.

The cases would not drop out on their own - I gently pushed them out with a cleaning rod. The cases would 'snug' in and resist any more force when chambering - as you would expect on a tapered surface. They protruded far enough that closing the breech was impossible - not just difficult. There was not a hard stop feel that I would expect if it was interfering at the neck.

According to my reloading guide, the maximum length for the case is 1.505". I measured the case lengths before sizing and most were a few thou under 1.500".

I didn't notice any marks on the bullets of the Sako rounds so I don't think it's pushing on the rifling. The round I tried did feel snug and I had to use some force (but not rediculous) on the lever to close the breechblock.

Thanks for all the input so far.
 
...and the neck diameter of your factory round that chambers is... ______________?

...and the neck diameter of your reload that does not chamber chamber is... ______________?
 
I used my 6" digital Mitutoyo caliper to measure two samples of each case or round. The caliper resolves to .0005" and I checked it for zero when closed. Some varience was noted at each measurement location but typically was no more then .001". At the mercy of my hand, here are the results.

Neck Dimensions:

Reloading guide says .246 at the neck near the bullet

Sako Factory (Chambers): .2465 near bullet .247 near shoulder

Sako Factory (Chambers): .247 near bullet .247 near shoulder

Handload (Doesn't Chamber): .248 near bullet .251 near shoulder (ouch!)

Handload (Doesn't Chamber): .247 near bullet .249 near shoulder

Sized Case (Doesn't Chamber): .248 near mouth .254 near shoulder (yoiks!)

Sized Case (Doesn't Chamber): .245 near mouth .2475 near shoulder


While sizing cases, I had a neck rip so I took a mini-hacksaw and cut the neck off at the shoulder fillet. I deburred and sanded the cut leaving a neckless case. It did not chamber. For the RCBS sized cases, the typical protrusion from the rear of the chamber was around .030" (uncalibrated eyeball depth guage.)

My impression so far is that while the neck is an aggravating factor, I think that the shoulder is too high on my sized cases. As mentioned before, I did have the sizing die in contact with the shell holder.

I still have to contact the gunsmith but I think Redding sells dies and spacers that allow the shoulder position to be tweaked. Can anyone confirm this? I still prefer the change the die approach to the remachine the chamber solution. I'd like to find out if a special reamer was used or if the chamber was made to minimize case expansion by cutting it very close to the limit. Or maybe, there's some bad luck happening here (for me). Regardless, I bought the rifle with the intention of handloading for it and one way or another, I need to resolve this problem.
 
I would suggest quit wasting your time trying to figure this out on the net and get to your gunsmith with your dies, cases and rifle and get some on hands help.... after all he built it and it works with factory ammo... he should be able to show you what you are doing wrong.... otherwise you may end up spending money on stuff you don't need. If your sizing die is a little long he can easily shorten it.
 
PPC USA was standardized by SAKO but older chambers vary a bit.Try a 220 Russian brass(Lapua) which is the parant case of the PPC . It is slightly smaller in the web area than SAKO brass. If it drops in OK then build your PPC reloads around this brass.
 
You've probably got a match chamber of some sort which can come in a vast array of dimensions, especially in PPC's, generally smaller than standard sammi chambers. Not only might you have to get special dies you may also have to neck turn. Take it to the smith and find out the dimensions of the reamer he used and go from there.
 
The trick I have used in cases like this is to make a few flat washers out of shim stock of varying thicknesses. The washer must fit in the shell holder and the middle must allow depriming if you leave the decapping stem in, if you take decapping rod out, you don't need a hole in the centre. Try .001, .003, .005 and see what you can fit under the case head in the shell holder.....this will eliminate any slop in shell holder and may give you enough extra, that the increased sizing will be enough! Very inexpensive fix if it works!
 
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