Problem with safety on LE No 1 Mk III

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rf2

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Hi,
I have a SMLE No 1 Mk III that has been sporterized. I was using it for deer hunting for a few years, but it has this annoying issue with the safety.
If I have the sling over my left shoulder, with the muzzle pointed up (the bolt facing towards my body), after a several steps, the bolt will open and the round will fall out onto the ground. This is despite the fact that the safety was in the "safe" position. What happens is the bolt brushes against my coat or part of my body, and this causes the bolt to rotate up and down slightly. After a couple of rotations, the safety moves into the fire position, and the bolt opens. This can be replicated with the rifle in the normal shooting position as well.

Is this a common problem for these guns? Is there a way to fix it?

Thanks,
Rob
 
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Sounds as if the safety spring (left side of the rifle, it`s the strap-sort-of-thing with the screw at the bottom) either is weak or not bearing properly. This is somewhat of a common problem.

The actual problem could be either the spring has lost its springiness, or it has gotten bent somehow, or it has come loose. There should be a rather solid feel to the safety and it shoundnt go flipping itself off.

First, check if the screw is loose. If it is loose, tighten it up and try the rifle.

If the problem persists, undo and remove the screw, then lift off the spring itself, being very careful not to remove or disturb the safety mechanism. This thing uses an 8-start thread and needs to be timed in order to work; by NOT removing it, you won`t need to re-time it. Check for dirt and garbage under the spring. If there is some there, clean it out.

You can ADD PRESSURE to the spring by bending it slightly farther than it already is bent. Then you put it back on and try the rifle. Chances are the problem will be gone.

There is always the possibility that the spring has lost its temper (I do this all the time!). If this has happened, the problem will recur. In this case the remedy is to replace the safety spring with a new spring. They are only worth about 3 bucks, anyway.

BTW, the Lee-Enfield action is fast enough that you are taking a silly risk by carrying the thing with a round up the spout, right next to your ear. Try repairing the safety, then carrying the rifle with the chamber empty. Be a lot safer. I lost 40% of my hearing to a single gunshot (big one, mind you, but I was yards from the muzzle; carrying a rifle like you are would guarantee a burst eardrum if it fired), really don`t want to hear of people getting in the same fix. Be safe.

Hope this helps.
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Smellie, thanks for the excellent information. I will try out your suggestions.

Regarding the risks of carrying the LE with the safety not working properly, you are right. I stopped carrying it that way because it was both unsafe and annoying to have the action pop open. That's why I'm retiring it from active hunting duty. I'll probably just use it once in a while for target shooting, although it was fairly accurate once it got "warmed-up" (another reason why it's being retired - the first shot was always a bit unpredictable).

SKScanuck, If I need a new spring I'll be sure to contact you. Thanks.
 
Friend, your first shot should be the one that you CAN predict, given that all is well in Enfield Land. Inconsistent shooting generally is indicative of a bedding issue, often cured for a bit of elbow grease, a few odd incantations and the sacrifice of about a third of a kit of Acra-Glas gel. I would suspect a cracked forestock (easily cured), the crack being at the rear of the fore-end, right where the sear/triger interface is to be found. Wood here is thin and old stocks do dry and crack in this climate. If it is cracked here, flush it out with brakedrum cleaner, wait an hour and then glue it with Acra-Glas Gel and clamp it for 12 hours, put your rifle back together (3 screws) and try her again.

If this doesn't help imrove predictability, come back here and we'll sacrifice a virgin or something..... if we can find one. If we can't, then we'll do something else, but we WILL get it shooting better.

Have fun!
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Interesting. Yes, I do realize that the first shot is the one that should be predictable - that's why I concluded the gun is not suitable for hunting.
I always attributed this issue to the fact that I was not patient enough to let the gun cool down completely between shots. I figured that if I really wanted to, I could let it cool down, then take another shot, and correct the scope point of aim accordingly. I just never have enough time to spend all day at the range to do this.
I will check the stock in the area you mentioned. I'll try to post some pics to let you know what I find. It would be great if the issue you pointed out was the cause of my problems, because the rifle is in decent shape, and would be kind of cool to use an 80 year old rifle to hunt deer with.

smellie said:
Friend, your first shot should be the one that you CAN predict, given that all is well in Enfield Land. Inconsistent shooting generally is indicative of a bedding issue, often cured for a bit of elbow grease, a few odd incantations and the sacrifice of about a third of a kit of Acra-Glas gel. I would suspect a cracked forestock (easily cured), the crack being at the rear of the fore-end, right where the sear/triger interface is to be found. Wood here is thin and old stocks do dry and crack in this climate. If it is cracked here, flush it out with brakedrum cleaner, wait an hour and then glue it with Acra-Glas Gel and clamp it for 12 hours, put your rifle back together (3 screws) and try her again.

If this doesn't help imrove predictability, come back here and we'll sacrifice a virgin or something..... if we can find one. If we can't, then we'll do something else, but we WILL get it shooting better.

Have fun!
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Friend, age means nothing in this business. The four most accurate rifles I own ALL are well under 1MOA... and two of them are strict iron-sight milsurps, one a 1910 Ross made in 1913 (.5 MOA), the other an Aussie SMLE built in 1918 (.7 MOA). The other two are a chopped P-'14 (.5 MOA) and a nicely-sportered M-1917 (also .5 MOA). They all have their original barrels.

Nothing wrong with shooting your dinner with an 80-year-old rifle; sounds terrific fun as a matter of fact.

Keep coming here and we'll get her shooting better. The Short Lee-Enfield Rifle is the most trouble-free and the toughest mechanism ever put into the field. This one just needs a touch of TLC and she'll shoot like the champion she is.
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If all the other suggestions don't make it safe, you can always use the half-#### position in the bolt knob. There is no safer safety available.
 
chaspres said:
If all the other suggestions don't make it safe, you can always use the half-#### position in the bolt knob. There is no safer safety available.
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So I was looking at the rifle tonight. I tried what I believe is the half #### position (held the handle at the end of the bolt that is attached to the firing pin, pulled the trigger, and let the pin travel forward to the next stop). I can fire the gun from this position, and that's what I remember from the last time I tried this. Is this normal? Not too safe.

I also took the spring off the safety, bent it a bit more and reassembled it. Now the safety works just fine. Thank you smellie!
 
I took the gun apart and noticed a few things that might have contributed to the problem related to the wandering first shot.

First of all, there was a small piece of wood that had been used to fill a gap between the stock and the barrel - this had come loose apparently a long time ago (before I acquired the rifle) and was wedged between the barrel and the stock. I removed this.

Next, I checked the forestock in the below mentioned location, and sure enough, it was cracked. It seems the previous owner tried to repair it by driving a brass coloured nail through the stock, but the stock is still quite flexy in the area of the crack. Now I am left with the problem of trying to remove the nail without damaging the stock so that I can try to glue the stock together properly. I don't know if I want to do this because my woodworking skills are not at a level that I would feel comfortable filling the nail hole with appropriately coloured wood filler and revarnishing it.

I know this is probably blasphemy on this forum, but how much does a synthetic stock cost for a LE No1 MKIII? :redface:I would keep the wood stock, but if I want to actually use this gun for hunting, it's gotta shoot straight. A synthetic stock seems like the easiest route to getting it there, and I could fix the wood stock at my leisure.


smellie said:
Friend, your first shot should be the one that you CAN predict, given that all is well in Enfield Land. Inconsistent shooting generally is indicative of a bedding issue, often cured for a bit of elbow grease, a few odd incantations and the sacrifice of about a third of a kit of Acra-Glas gel. I would suspect a cracked forestock (easily cured), the crack being at the rear of the fore-end, right where the sear/triger interface is to be found. Wood here is thin and old stocks do dry and crack in this climate. If it is cracked here, flush it out with brakedrum cleaner, wait an hour and then glue it with Acra-Glas Gel and clamp it for 12 hours, put your rifle back together (3 screws) and try her again.

If this doesn't help imrove predictability, come back here and we'll sacrifice a virgin or something..... if we can find one. If we can't, then we'll do something else, but we WILL get it shooting better.

Have fun!
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John Sukey said:
I don't believe that "brass coloured nail" is an after market thing unless the original owner was the government.
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Really? It's right through the part of the stock that is cracked. It's less 2 mm in "diameter", although it's not round - it's sort of half-moon shaped. It's maybe 1 cm forward on the forestock from the screw that holds the safety together. Do all these guns have this? if so, what is the purpose of it?
 
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rf2 said:
Really? It's right through the part of the stock that is cracked. It's less 2 mm in "diameter", although it's not round - it's sort of half-moon shaped. It's maybe 1 cm forward on the forestock from the screw that holds the safety together. Do all these guns have this? if so, what is the purpose if it?
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Nevermind, I looked for some images online, and a lot of these guns have this thing. Still curious about the purpose of it though.

So in terms of repairing the crack, how would I go about this without removing this "nail"? Just spread the crack slightly, clean it out with brake cleaner (as mentioned previously), let it dry, glue it and clamp it?
 
the brass pin

The purpose the the brass pin near the rear end of the fore stock was to provide a reinforcement for that very narrow piece of wood that you have found cracked. Later Lee Enfields had a strap across the back of the fore stock in this area.

One of the biggest causes of "the damned crack" is ignorance. People try to take the Butt Stock off before they remove the forestock wood. The Butt Stock Bolt in a lot of these rifles has a square end that fits into a corresponding steel plate embedded in the rear of the forestock. When it refuses to turn, they apply more pressure, and spread the wood and crack it.

I realize that you are just learning about the Lee Enfield system, so I will give you a small bit of advice. Two of the people who really know what they are doing and can help you are JOHN SUKEY and SMELLIE. It would benefit you to pay attention to what they try to tell you.
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Thanks for the info. I figured out the las bit of info you mentioned pretty quickly. They seemed to be right on with their advice.

My forestock doesn't have a steel plate that the squared bolt should fit into - I guess it must have been removed when it was sporterized. I'm going to try to glue the stock and see what happens.

buffdog said:
The purpose the the brass pin near the rear end of the fore stock was to provide a reinforcement for that very narrow piece of wood that you have found cracked. Later Lee Enfields had a strap across the back of the fore stock in this area.

One of the biggest causes of "the damned crack" is ignorance. People try to take the Butt Stock off before they remove the forestock wood. The Butt Stock Bolt in a lot of these rifles has a square end that fits into a corresponding steel plate embedded in the rear of the forestock. When it refuses to turn, they apply more pressure, and spread the wood and crack it.

I realize that you are just learning about the Lee Enfield system, so I will give you a small bit of advice. Two of the people who really know what they are doing and can help you are JOHN SUKEY and SMELLIE. It would benefit you to pay attention to what they try to tell you.
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Experts

John Sukey said:
Please don't call me an "expert" I just buy all the books I can find that were written by experts. Have heard good opinions about "Gorilla Glue"
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Knowledge is not knowing all the information. Knowledge is knowing where to find the information. The fine thing is sharing that information with others. An extensive library makes life a lot easier.

In that case, John, since you don't want to be called an "expert", is it all right if we call you " a modest and knowledgeable old fart?" :)
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John Sukey said:
Please don't call me an "expert" I just buy all the books I can find that were written by experts. Have heard good opinions about "Gorilla Glue"
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That's a really weird coincidence. I was at Canadian Tire today, and I saw Gorilla Glue by the cash. I was thinking "hmm, wonder if this stuff would work to glue my stock?" Maybe I should buy it ($7), since I've never heard of Acragel until a few days ago when Smellie mentioned it.

In your opinion, could a crack in the stock in this location actually cause a "first shot" to be off target compared to subsequent shots after the gun is warmed up? I'd hate to glue the stock and then find that it didn't help the issue. I'm considering buying a synthetic stock since they aren't that expensive.
 
buffdog said:
Knowledge is not knowing all the information. Knowledge is knowing where to find the information. The fine thing is sharing that information with others. An extensive library makes life a lot easier.

In that case, John, since you don't want to be called an "expert", is it all right if we call you " a modest and knowledgeable old fart?" :)
.
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ha:ha:ha:ha:ha:f:P:
 
Thinking on "old farts" for a minute, I am forced to consider birthdates. Seems to me that it would be much nicer to refer to those of us who are getting into that bracket as "war-surplus citizens", being that our birthdates (Buffdog, John Sukey, myself) all seem to be somewhere between the Battle of Poland and the mushroom over Hiroshima. Those years gave the world a lot of wonderful things: modern electronics, the first computer (Colossus), a whole great big pile of rifles and handguns and (sadly) verboten MGs to play with..... and US.

I use the Acra-Glas Gel because I usually have it around; it is marvellously handy stuff for bedding rifles into their stocks: doesn't rot, doesn't shrink, zip temperature change, strong....... and you can degrade it to powder, thus removing it, with acetone. It also works pretty good for repairing Bakelite radio cabinets.

That said, I would think that Gorillas are more than a bit strong: certainly strong enough to handle that nasty crack. The most important point about it is that it doesn't shrink as it sets up, making it ideal for the repair which you need. Thanks to John Sukey for taking my head out of wherever it was!

With the crack repaired properly, you should be able to get the rifle on the same paper with your first shot, every time. As to top accuracy with the Lee-Enfield, I have a couple here that will do 1 MOA any time you care to try them out, just so long as you feed them good ammo. That was why I gave you my test load for the .303 cartridge; it uses a very good bullet at the most-accurate known velocity. If a rifle won't shoot with that particular load, then there is something wrong.... and that something generally is in the wood-to-metal fit. Tightening up the wood-to-metal fit (especially around the action and the chamber) should get it shooting to point of aim, more or less, then we can work on it to get it pinpoint. The Lee-Enfield rifle likely is the single most UNDERrated rifle in the field today, and simply because most folks don't undestand it. But it has to have SOMETHING going for it: it has been in production, with little change, since 1879. That says something, one would think.

BTW, you will never get that little brass nail driven out because it isn't. It is a piece of threaded brass rod, factory-installed for the purpose outlined above.

This is my two thousand, four hundred and fortieth post. In the Wonderful World of Lee-Enfields this is a significant number: it is the muzzle velocity (nominal) of the Mark VII Ball round in a Short rifle or a Number 4. All hail the Magic Number!

Hope this helps.
 
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