Progressive press
- Thread starter MarkdevCanada
- Start date
Halger280HVMag
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- B.C. XMU Local .454
FWIW...I use and have used Dillon progressives (alongside a half-dozen other brands) for over twenty years and I'm still happy.....
IMHO.... the Dillon 550 series is one of the most versatile machines for a reasonable sum of money......
The 650 series bring you auto-casefeed and auto-index at a higher cost....
The square Deal machine only does pistol rounds (although it does that quite well) for less money.....
I guess some shooters can justify a 1050 machine, that's a bit rich for me and I simply don't need the capabilities....
RCBS, Hornady, Lee and others also market good, useful equipment.....
Dillon has a most excellent guarantee that virtually covers your machine whether or not you are the first owner....
my 2 cents....
IMHO.... the Dillon 550 series is one of the most versatile machines for a reasonable sum of money......
The 650 series bring you auto-casefeed and auto-index at a higher cost....
The square Deal machine only does pistol rounds (although it does that quite well) for less money.....
I guess some shooters can justify a 1050 machine, that's a bit rich for me and I simply don't need the capabilities....
RCBS, Hornady, Lee and others also market good, useful equipment.....
Dillon has a most excellent guarantee that virtually covers your machine whether or not you are the first owner....
my 2 cents....
Since you will be loading larger rifle cases, you might be better served with a 550. A 650 is wonderful if you shoot a lot of pistol, and it will load rifle fairly well, but the larger rifle rounds can be problematic at the case feeder and dispencing powder (unless you are well served with ball).
I just bought my second Dillon RL-550B press. My buddies wanted me to go with a RCBS single-stage or a Lee turret press. While both are great presses, I waited until I had the cash for the Dillon. I've never been disappointed with their flexibility and quality!
I've just finished going through the same dilemma you are. After many! hours of reading on Canadian and US message boards, I narrowed my search down to two companies:
Dillon (RL550B, or XL 650)
Hornady (Lock-N-Load AP).
For every good review, I could find a bad review. The same is to be said for the progressive presses from Lee and RCBS. It was really hard to find a review that compared one press to another by someone who had legitimately owned and used both. There were plenty of reviews where an owner of one briefly compared it to his brother/friend's other brand, but again without much qualitative comparison. In all honesty, I bet that they are all good presses, if you take the time to set them up properly and make sure they are clean and well adjusted. Reading and following the instructions (as much as it goes against the male psyche) actually seems to result in successful setup and operation. Some presses have advantages over the others, but in the same breath they also have a disadvantage that one of the others does better.
You will definitely hear and read an almost cult-like following for Dillon. Sadly, most of the "just buy a Dillon" recommendations rarely come with reasons why.
Here's where I got my main information in helping me understand the capabilities and differences between the Dillon and Hornady.
Dillon: http://www.brianenos.com/pages/dillon.html#which
Hornady: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=132404&highlight=lock+load+cortland and http://www.cs.odu.edu/~rtompkin/hornady/blue.php
What did I learn in all that reading?
- These presses are all very capable and reliable... but the tool is only as good as the operator.
- Dillon has a strong reputation with their "No BS" warranty. If you (or someone else) breaks anything through normal use, accident, or even neglect, they will repair/replace it for free, including shipping. The down side here is that you have to pay for everyone elses abuse of this policy, up front, when you buy a Dillon product. After your money is spent... abuse away if you desire.
- Hornady and the other manufacturers have been forced to mimic this style of customer service as a result of Dillon's reputation. Perhaps for the better.
- Lots of people argue for one or the other based on their perceived speed of calibre changes. For me, reloading is not a race. If it takes me 2 minutes, or 15 minutes to change calibres... mox nix
- The following compares pros and cons of these two company's presses, IMHO:
Whew!
So after all that, what did I do? I bought the Hornady LNL. It was a really tough choice, all presses work very well, Dillon has a very strong following and I've been told that most IPSC shooters seem to have chosen Dillon. Why did I choose Hornady?
- powder thru expanders are about to be released... and I really want to use a powder check die as well as a separate crimp die. To do this I need 5 die-stations. (EDIT: as written above, these are now available)
- I wanted auto-indexing, and the LNL was cheaper than the 650.
- The LNL comes with a better powder measure (IMHO).
- I didn't want to pay up front for other people's abuse of Dillon's warranty policies.
- Last, my local gunsmith is the Atlantic Canada distributor for Hornady, so he cuts a good deal.
If you want to buy a Dillon, I had excellent and helpful communication with The Reloaders Bench. I liked his prices, and he gave honest advice without pushing something I didn't need. http://www.reloadersbench.com/
I also had good communication with P&D Enterprises. http://www.p-d-ent.com/pages/reload/pda.html
I bought the Hornady from Blue Mountain Sports. Gordon Whitman doesn't have a website that I know of, but his business number is: 506-468-2919. He's owned and used both Dillon and Hornady, so he gave me good advice.
There ya go. All of my comparisons are based on reading other people's writing and/or advice, and not based on having used either machine myself. Fortunately, reading this only cost you your time, not your money. When I win the lottery, I'll own both just cause I can, and I'll post an honest comparison. (Edit 10 Apr 07: I've been using my LNL for about a year, and after a few thousand pistol handloads I'm quite happy with it. Like any mechanical tool, it's not without its quirks but I've worked through them without too much drama. I can't recommend strongly enough to get an RCBS Powder Check Die. Even with being anal about watching very closely, it has saved me from a squib load. For anybody that does go all the way to a case feeder and KISS bullet feeder, that powder check die just might save you from a bad day at the range. I still haven't won the lottery yet, so I can't make an objective post about the Dillon 650 yet.)
Play safe.
Dillon (RL550B, or XL 650)
Hornady (Lock-N-Load AP).
For every good review, I could find a bad review. The same is to be said for the progressive presses from Lee and RCBS. It was really hard to find a review that compared one press to another by someone who had legitimately owned and used both. There were plenty of reviews where an owner of one briefly compared it to his brother/friend's other brand, but again without much qualitative comparison. In all honesty, I bet that they are all good presses, if you take the time to set them up properly and make sure they are clean and well adjusted. Reading and following the instructions (as much as it goes against the male psyche) actually seems to result in successful setup and operation. Some presses have advantages over the others, but in the same breath they also have a disadvantage that one of the others does better.
You will definitely hear and read an almost cult-like following for Dillon. Sadly, most of the "just buy a Dillon" recommendations rarely come with reasons why.
Here's where I got my main information in helping me understand the capabilities and differences between the Dillon and Hornady.
Dillon: http://www.brianenos.com/pages/dillon.html#which
Hornady: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=132404&highlight=lock+load+cortland and http://www.cs.odu.edu/~rtompkin/hornady/blue.php
What did I learn in all that reading?
- These presses are all very capable and reliable... but the tool is only as good as the operator.
- Dillon has a strong reputation with their "No BS" warranty. If you (or someone else) breaks anything through normal use, accident, or even neglect, they will repair/replace it for free, including shipping. The down side here is that you have to pay for everyone elses abuse of this policy, up front, when you buy a Dillon product. After your money is spent... abuse away if you desire.
- Hornady and the other manufacturers have been forced to mimic this style of customer service as a result of Dillon's reputation. Perhaps for the better.
- Lots of people argue for one or the other based on their perceived speed of calibre changes. For me, reloading is not a race. If it takes me 2 minutes, or 15 minutes to change calibres... mox nix
- The following compares pros and cons of these two company's presses, IMHO:
- Hornady's rotary style powder measure is superior to Dillon's powder bar. Both systems work well... by I like the rotary better. Regardless, my reading has shown that both need to be kept clean in order to be properly reliable.
- Changing calibres on the Hornady involves removing each die via their lock-n-load bushings. Simple, no need to change settings. The simplest way to change calibres on the Dillon is to buy spare tool heads. Buy spare LNL bushings... buy spare toolheads... there's not much in it.
- At the moment, Dillon has powder-thru-expanders and Hornady does not. Hornady is about to release powder-thru-expanders, but the timing has not been confirmed. December 05 and January 06 are a couple dates I've heard. Why is this significant? The 550B has 4 die-stations, the 650 has 5, and LNL has 5. If you're loading straight-walled pistol cartridges and want to use a separate die for crimping, you quickly run out of die stations if you have to expand and charge in different stations. This problem is exacerbated if you also want to use a powder check-die. (Resize/deprime, charge&bell, check-die, seat die, crimp die.) Lots of discussion seems to ensue about the merits of powder check dies, and crimping in a separate station. I personally like both, but that's my opinion.
(EDIT 10 Apr 07: Since writing the first draft, Hornady now makes powder thru expanders for the LNL. I haven't used them yet, but fellow CGN acrashb has written that his work well.)
(EDIT 10 Apr 07: Since writing the first draft, Hornady now makes powder thru expanders for the LNL. I haven't used them yet, but fellow CGN acrashb has written that his work well.)
- The 650 and LNL both have electric case feeders available for separate purchase. This can significantly increase your reloading rate, if you have the need for high production. Dillon is supposed to be releasing a case feeder for the 550 in December. All 3 case feeders are around $250 to buy.
- The LNL and the 650 are auto indexing, while the 550 is manually indexed by hand(turning the shell plate from one die to the next). The LNL turns half a station on the upstroke, and half on the down-stroke, producing a smooth action which is not prone to spilling powder. The 650 indexes a full station at the bottom of the downstroke... still effective, but I could see where this might spill powder from full cases. On both presses you could run the risk of double charging a case if you don't fully complete each stroke (short stroke). The 550 is indexed with your thumb just before you pull the handle... very controllable, but potential for double-charging a case exists if you don't stay focused. All of these systems are effective for the user who pays attention. In my opinion, I like Hornady's system better.
- Hornady's older (pre 2003) LNL presses had a bad history of primer feed problems. They are supposed to have fixed the problem in the new presses. The Dillon primer feed mechanisms seem to function reliably, provided you keep everything clean.
- To buy the similar component for Hornady or Dillon, Dillon's prices are higher (but not drastically so). This seems to hold true for most things... dies, shell plates, powder measures, etc... again you're paying for that "No BS" warranty up front. For the tight budget shopper, this could be significant.
- Dillon cuts a very small margin for their retailers. In Canada, we seem to pay Dillon's price, plus shipping to the Cdn retailer, plus shipping to our door. Aside from wanting to support local businesses, this practice makes it hard not to just buy direct from Dillon... though you'll have to contend with brokerage fees at the border. Makes you wonder how much hassle is worth your time and money.
Whew!
So after all that, what did I do? I bought the Hornady LNL. It was a really tough choice, all presses work very well, Dillon has a very strong following and I've been told that most IPSC shooters seem to have chosen Dillon. Why did I choose Hornady?
- powder thru expanders are about to be released... and I really want to use a powder check die as well as a separate crimp die. To do this I need 5 die-stations. (EDIT: as written above, these are now available)
- I wanted auto-indexing, and the LNL was cheaper than the 650.
- The LNL comes with a better powder measure (IMHO).
- I didn't want to pay up front for other people's abuse of Dillon's warranty policies.
- Last, my local gunsmith is the Atlantic Canada distributor for Hornady, so he cuts a good deal.
If you want to buy a Dillon, I had excellent and helpful communication with The Reloaders Bench. I liked his prices, and he gave honest advice without pushing something I didn't need. http://www.reloadersbench.com/
I also had good communication with P&D Enterprises. http://www.p-d-ent.com/pages/reload/pda.html
I bought the Hornady from Blue Mountain Sports. Gordon Whitman doesn't have a website that I know of, but his business number is: 506-468-2919. He's owned and used both Dillon and Hornady, so he gave me good advice.
There ya go. All of my comparisons are based on reading other people's writing and/or advice, and not based on having used either machine myself. Fortunately, reading this only cost you your time, not your money. When I win the lottery, I'll own both just cause I can, and I'll post an honest comparison. (Edit 10 Apr 07: I've been using my LNL for about a year, and after a few thousand pistol handloads I'm quite happy with it. Like any mechanical tool, it's not without its quirks but I've worked through them without too much drama. I can't recommend strongly enough to get an RCBS Powder Check Die. Even with being anal about watching very closely, it has saved me from a squib load. For anybody that does go all the way to a case feeder and KISS bullet feeder, that powder check die just might save you from a bad day at the range. I still haven't won the lottery yet, so I can't make an objective post about the Dillon 650 yet.)
Play safe.
Last edited:
I'd love to see some pics of your Hornady setup, as well as a review once you've used it for awhile. Did you get the case feed option?
for rifle rounds I'd go with the manual indexing RCBS Pro 2000. I use one for almost all my reloading (a Rockchucker for my .308). .223 on the Pro are a breeze, and obviously so are all my pistol rounds.
for rifle rounds I'd go with the manual indexing RCBS Pro 2000. I use one for almost all my reloading (a Rockchucker for my .308). .223 on the Pro are a breeze, and obviously so are all my pistol rounds.
presses
Keep in mind, the more features a press has, ie; auto index, case feeder, the more complex the press is. This means more things to go wrong, and in the case of comparing a 550 to a 650, eveything is more expensive for the 650. Shell plates, turrets, etc, so changing calibers is much more expensive on the 650 than the 550.
Judging by the complaints on Brian Enos site ,the 650 is much more trouble to run and change calibre's on, as it should be, it is much more complex.
Keep in mind, the more features a press has, ie; auto index, case feeder, the more complex the press is. This means more things to go wrong, and in the case of comparing a 550 to a 650, eveything is more expensive for the 650. Shell plates, turrets, etc, so changing calibers is much more expensive on the 650 than the 550.
Judging by the complaints on Brian Enos site ,the 650 is much more trouble to run and change calibre's on, as it should be, it is much more complex.
I have been using a Dillon 550 since they first came out and a 450 before that and it has been a great press. I thought about going to a 650 but the cost of conversion kits would be huge since I currently reload 9 calibers on my 550.
skeetgunner
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Burlington
acrashb said:
I thought the Lee Loadmaster could do all the rifle cartridges, (except .50 BMG)? Isn't it just the Lee Pro 1000 and turret pressess that can only do .233?
Ok, it turns out that they sell shellplates for larger calibres - I must have been remembering 'advice' vs official rating. I love mine, but would not want to load anything over .223 due to the force required to resize.skeetgunner said:
beretta boy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Orillia, Ontario
Redhead ... like the way you think !
Hope it works out well for you !
Hope it works out well for you !
