"Proofing" in Canada

[Potashminer]

Is there a place / organization in Canada where I could get a barrel + action + bolt "proofed"? I see the BNP marks on many British rifles, and similar from Belgium and Germany. It is my impression that "proofing" involves the use of very standardized high pressure rounds. This firearm happens to be chambered in 30-06, and I am considering some repairs that I will want to "pressure test", somehow.

 

[guntech]

Nothing official in Canada that I am aware of.

Perhaps explain in a bit more detail the repairs you are considering.

 

[sulisa]

Nothing official in Canada that I am aware of.

Perhaps explain in a bit more detail the repairs you are considering.

I'd be interested in finding out more as well. I was looking at Black Powder flintlock pistols, which come without the primer hole drilled, and the company recommended getting the firearm proofed, on the occasion of drilling the hole and registering it.

Proofing should be done by someone qualified to fire a hot round through it, verify that no damage has done, and stamp a recognized stamp on it. There are obviously proof houses in Canada, because there are manufacturers in Canada (Colt Canada would/should proof each barrel, for example) - the challenge is to find a shop open to taking firearms from the public.

 

[lyman54]

Nothing in North America. The U.S. doesn't even have a law for it and I doubt Canada has one either. It is done on a volunteer basis. Europe or most of it is required to test all firearms as is the UK.

 

[Potashminer]

Nothing official in Canada that I am aware of.

Perhaps explain in a bit more detail the repairs you are considering.

An M1917 30-06 that my father bought in 1948. By 1950 he had "sportered" it. A major issue, to me, is that he hacksawed a slot (intending to file a dove-tail) 0.2" wide directly over the chamber - pretty much centered right on the shoulder of the chambered cartridge. His slot left .260" or less of metal over the chamber. He shot hundreds, if not thousands, of factory rounds though it in the ensuring 60 years. I was considering having that slot welded, then turning down the weld to match the original contour. As is, we have the rifle "parked", we no longer use it. I have lots of "proofed" 30-06's, so no real need for this one, except as "family" history. I thought it might be cool to have my grandkids fire their great-Grandpa's old gun, but just no longer confident in it... Might even just "proof" it as is, to put my mind to rest.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

I'd be interested in finding out more as well. I was looking at Black Powder flintlock pistols, which come without the primer hole drilled, and the company recommended getting the firearm proofed, on the occasion of drilling the hole and registering it.

Proofing should be done by someone qualified to fire a hot round through it, verify that no damage has done, and stamp a recognized stamp on it. There are obviously proof houses in Canada, because there are manufacturers in Canada (Colt Canada would/should proof each barrel, for example) - the challenge is to find a shop open to taking firearms from the public.

Private industry in Canada, they probably proof their own, like other North American manufacturers. In Europe, it's done by a government agency.

Grizz

 

[rifleman762]

An M1917 30-06 that my father bought in 1948. By 1950 he had "sportered" it. A major issue, to me, is that he hacksawed a slot (intending to file a dove-tail) 0.2" wide directly over the chamber - pretty much centered right on the shoulder of the chambered cartridge. His slot left .260" or less of metal over the chamber. He shot hundreds, if not thousands, of factory rounds though it in the ensuring 60 years. I was considering having that slot welded, then turning down the weld to match the original contour. As is, we have the rifle "parked", we no longer use it. I have lots of "proofed" 30-06's, so no real need for this one, except as "family" history. I thought it might be cool to have my grandkids fire their great-Grandpa's old gun, but just no longer confident in it... Might even just "proof" it as is, to put my mind to rest.

At .260" around a .441" shoulder diameter (effectively a 0.961" barrel diameter), you will have 95 ksi of stress in the steel (with 62,000 psi chamber pressure). 120 ksi is normal for the chamber area of a modern rifle and a Mauser 96 runs around 106 ksi. So, based on your measurements, you should be ok. If you can measure precisely the the barrel diameter at the location of the slot and the depth of the slot I can re-run the numbers for you. I'd be more worried about welding on the steel and possibly annealing it a bit and losing the heat treat.

 

[guntech]

An M1917 30-06 that my father bought in 1948. By 1950 he had "sportered" it. A major issue, to me, is that he hacksawed a slot (intending to file a dove-tail) 0.2" wide directly over the chamber - pretty much centered right on the shoulder of the chambered cartridge. His slot left .260" or less of metal over the chamber. He shot hundreds, if not thousands, of factory rounds though it in the ensuring 60 years. I was considering having that slot welded, then turning down the weld to match the original contour. As is, we have the rifle "parked", we no longer use it. I have lots of "proofed" 30-06's, so no real need for this one, except as "family" history. I thought it might be cool to have my grandkids fire their g, but just no longer confident in it... Might even just "proof" it as is, to put my mind to rest.

Well with new modifications it really won't be your grandkids great-Grandpa's old gun that he shot forever any longer. Why not let them shoot it as is?

An option - Fit a tight blank into the dovetail and dress it down to barrel contour and blue the barrel... it will hardly be noticeable and any heat treatment will not be affected.

 

[Dosing]

There are obviously proof houses in Canada, because there are manufacturers in Canada (Colt Canada would/should proof each barrel, for example) - the challenge is to find a shop open to taking firearms from the public.

Nope. European proof houses and the like have no equivalents in Canada and the USA. Anyone can come up with a proof load, and set it off.

30 Carbine sample

You find these and similar frequently in cartridge collecting.

Europeans tend to have laws requiring proofing, the US has resisted this with orgs like the NRA questioning the motives behind it. There was a push about a decade ago to bring it to the US, as a poorly veiled attempt at gun control, under the guise that guns could be 'unsafe' unless tested.

 

[cosmic]

Well - Proofing can be accomplished several ways. You can use one or two over pressure rounds, or a larger number of lower pressure rounds, or some form of NDE. Bear in mind that cartridge proofing was invented during a time when metallurgy was spotty, stress analysis was in its infancy, and x-rays had not been invented.
Sounds like you've already proofed the rifle - as stated above, avoid any welding and you will be fine...

 

[rifleman762]

I also calculated that the hoop stress in the barrel tenon of a 1917 Enfield in 30-06 at 62,000 psi chamber pressure would be 91 ksi. So the steel used was spec'd to at least that amount of yield strength and probably some 15 to 20% higher. Proof loads were usually in the range of 25% above normal operating pressure. A 75,000 psi proof load would have put 110ksi on the M1917 barrel tenon. I'd feel perfectly safe shooting that rifle but I wouldn't start chasing high velocities and pressures with handloads.

 

[cosmic]

Hopefully you used the Lame equation for thick wall cylinders. Your numbers seem high - years ago, I did the calculation for a No 4 Lee Enfield and came up with 44 KSI.

 

[Ol' Flinter]

I'd be interested in finding out more as well. I was looking at Black Powder flintlock pistols, which come without the primer hole drilled, and the company recommended getting the firearm proofed, on the occasion of drilling the hole and registering it.

Proofing should be done by someone qualified to fire a hot round through it, verify that no damage has done, and stamp a recognized stamp on it. There are obviously proof houses in Canada, because there are manufacturers in Canada (Colt Canada would/should proof each barrel, for example) - the challenge is to find a shop open to taking firearms from the public.

The historical method for proofing a BP muzzle loader was a double charge of powder and 2 patched balls. Take the barrel out of the stock and tie it to a log or something heavy. Fire it with a wick and stand away when you do it. I have proofed many barrels and only had one failure: blew the vent liner out of a flintlock barrel so it can happen. Some recommend doing the proof twice in case the first weakened something but I have never done that. Be careful: you do not want a failed breech plug stuck in your forehead.