I loaded up some Gevelot brass with 38.0 of #4895 powder and Sierras 174 grn. MatchKing with Winchester standard WLR primers. It shot very well in my P1914 Enfield. I did note that all of the primers are protruding a bit. They were flush when I started. The headspace was checked and the bolt face is square. Any ideas?
Protruding primers....303 British
- Thread starter Dantforth
- Start date
I would say your loads are a bit on the mild side. I would try upping the charge weights a grain at a time until the primers are flush, and then neck size for maximum case life. In your P14, you should be safe at 43/44 grains of 4895. While that Sierra probably mikes at around .311", I would be willing to bet your P14 is at .313" groove diameter. This contributes to low pressures for a given load. While the headspace may be OK as checked, it sounds as if it is on the higher side of allowable. Regards, Eagleye.
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A little light....
I had full length resized these cases to start but have a collet die to neck size once they are fired in that rifle. I will try one grain higher to see. Are most P14's at .313"? Is this due to wear or were they made that way? I also shoot Lee Enfields and keep the brass seperate. What would be the limit in your estimation in those rifles? Thanks, Dave
I had full length resized these cases to start but have a collet die to neck size once they are fired in that rifle. I will try one grain higher to see. Are most P14's at .313"? Is this due to wear or were they made that way? I also shoot Lee Enfields and keep the brass seperate. What would be the limit in your estimation in those rifles? Thanks, Dave
Practically every P14, regardless of manufacture date or factory will have groove dimeters of .3125" or larger. I have slugged a couple that were at .3153" This is usually NOT due to wear but the nominal groove diameter of the 303 Brit is .313" ( .303 bore +_ .005 groove depth x2 = .010 Total .303" + .010" = .313" Do keep the brass fron your Lee-Enfields separate from your P14. The LE action, while strong enough, tends to be a bit springy, and warm loads will reduce brass life dramatically. The P14 is a front locking action of substantial strength, and will digest loads that would be poison for a LE. There is a caution out there for the ERA built P14's, since the heat treatment was suspect, but the Remington and Winchester units have no such problem.
I have a 1916 vintage Winchester-built P14, and while I have not used much 4895 in it, my pet loads are as follows; 150 gr., 44/45 grains of N540, depending on bullet. 174/180 grain 49/50 grains of W760, again depending on bullet. These loads challenge the 308, and are very accurate in my rifle. As a matter of fact, My 150 Hornady load will shoot under 1" @ 100 meters consistently. The usual caution applies,Work up these loads from 5 grains below, watching for any undue pressure signs. My brass lasts a long time, some have been fired 9 or 10 times with no incipient separations, and no primer pocket issues. I shot two deer with mine last fall, one with a 180 Norma Semi spitzer (.312"), one with a 180 Sierra Pro-Hunter Spitzer (.311") Both were one-shot kills, and I was very pleased with the performance. Regards, Eagleye.
I have a 1916 vintage Winchester-built P14, and while I have not used much 4895 in it, my pet loads are as follows; 150 gr., 44/45 grains of N540, depending on bullet. 174/180 grain 49/50 grains of W760, again depending on bullet. These loads challenge the 308, and are very accurate in my rifle. As a matter of fact, My 150 Hornady load will shoot under 1" @ 100 meters consistently. The usual caution applies,Work up these loads from 5 grains below, watching for any undue pressure signs. My brass lasts a long time, some have been fired 9 or 10 times with no incipient separations, and no primer pocket issues. I shot two deer with mine last fall, one with a 180 Norma Semi spitzer (.312"), one with a 180 Sierra Pro-Hunter Spitzer (.311") Both were one-shot kills, and I was very pleased with the performance. Regards, Eagleye.
My questions have certainly been answered. Thanks to all. I have upped the load to 39.0 grns. and will try that. Are there any bullets (jacketed) which are .313" or .314"? I have some great cast bullets to try which were cast at .313" and then sized to .311". I probably should have them unsized to try them @ 313". Great fun shooting the 303 Br. Dave
- Location
- North-Central Quebec
The best loads in mine are 41 gr. of H-4895 or 47 gr. of w-760
Dantforth said:
The only bullets that are .313" & .314" are those mde by Steve Redgwell. He makes an excellent jacketed bullet at 200 grains that he calls the Mk 9 bulet. You can get them in either size. go to 303british.com FWIW, you might want to try some of those cast bullets left at .313" without sizing. Regards, Eagleye.
Check that your bolt handle goes all the way down. Some P14/P17 have the safety bolt pin removed.It goes up into the bolt when the military trigger is pulled.The after market triggers don't even come with one.With the advancing bolt lugs,the stock wood has to clear.Otherwise you can get some extra headspace.
The 303 case has the same volume as 308,so for the P-14 you can use 308 data.Use Caution,etc.
If you load lite,the cases will shrink on firing. More powder they should remain the same,more powder and they will fit the chamber.
The 303 case has the same volume as 308,so for the P-14 you can use 308 data.Use Caution,etc.
If you load lite,the cases will shrink on firing. More powder they should remain the same,more powder and they will fit the chamber.
sunray said:
Can't compare PSI to CUP, they are different measurements and there is no linear way to convert them. While the SAAMI spec for the 308 Winchester IS higher than that of the 303 British, that is in deference to the "springy" Lee-Enfield action. In a strong, front-locking action, there is no problem with the higher pressure loadings. So in fact, in a good P14, 308 loads are "usually" quite safe. Still good practice to work up to them carefully, and not jump at them. Regards, Eagleye.
Someone told me that the Gevelot brass is harder than other brass and doesn't expand to fill the chamber as readily. It was once fired and I have annealed the necks. This has all of the original military trigger and has not been fooled with. The bolt seems to go down all the way. I am waiting for my Lee universal case neck expanding die before I load the cast bullets. I appreciate all of the advise from all. I can't believe all of the interest in reloading the 303 BR. This probably explains why I can't find any used brass at the local shops. Dave
HI Dave.
I am into cast as well with my .303 Brtit. I have a #4Longbranch. Use needlenose pliars to expand the case mouth if you want to start loading casts sooner. Works great and, while I now have my Lee expander the needle nose pliars worked just as well. If you are loading on a single stage press the pliars saves you some time.
Just finished loading 60 rds 17 gr 4227 under Lyman 314299 boolit sized to .313. COL 2.931. Boolits were cast from WW and water quenched. Local store had no 2400 so I went with 4227. I load 16 gr 2400 under the same boolit with the same specs.
Take Care
I am into cast as well with my .303 Brtit. I have a #4Longbranch. Use needlenose pliars to expand the case mouth if you want to start loading casts sooner. Works great and, while I now have my Lee expander the needle nose pliars worked just as well. If you are loading on a single stage press the pliars saves you some time.
Just finished loading 60 rds 17 gr 4227 under Lyman 314299 boolit sized to .313. COL 2.931. Boolits were cast from WW and water quenched. Local store had no 2400 so I went with 4227. I load 16 gr 2400 under the same boolit with the same specs.
Take Care
On using 308 data: The action used for the P-14 was designed for a high pressure round.The Yanks used that action on their M-1917 30-06. My P-17 is a 308Norma ,now. The design doesn't handle gas as well as a mauser,so don't be stupid.
The #4 was for a while chambered as a 7.62Nato,but I think that might be more of a grey area.
But when I wrote "using 308 data for a P-14" I was thinking of more of the .313 bore. Of the three 180 303 bullets I tried,Remington ,Sierra and Speer, only the Sierra was .311,the others were .3105. I'm using the Speer RN for more engagement and a max loading of IMR 4064. Even with battle sights and old eyes there have been 1" groups. The velocity however has been low. The book says 2600(308) for a 24" barrel,I'm getting only 2500 with a 26" barrel.That's not above the 2550 to 2450 max for a 303 British. BTW,I wouldn't use those kind of velocities with your #1 or #4,it would it eat your brass.
I don't use Gevelot 303,but my 30-06 is a bit soft.Be careful about once-fired 303,there are some pretty loose #1s out there. I bought two boxs of the C-Tire cheapest Winchester,after 18 Collet die reloadings for my P-14,they are still good.
The #4 was for a while chambered as a 7.62Nato,but I think that might be more of a grey area.
But when I wrote "using 308 data for a P-14" I was thinking of more of the .313 bore. Of the three 180 303 bullets I tried,Remington ,Sierra and Speer, only the Sierra was .311,the others were .3105. I'm using the Speer RN for more engagement and a max loading of IMR 4064. Even with battle sights and old eyes there have been 1" groups. The velocity however has been low. The book says 2600(308) for a 24" barrel,I'm getting only 2500 with a 26" barrel.That's not above the 2550 to 2450 max for a 303 British. BTW,I wouldn't use those kind of velocities with your #1 or #4,it would it eat your brass.
I don't use Gevelot 303,but my 30-06 is a bit soft.Be careful about once-fired 303,there are some pretty loose #1s out there. I bought two boxs of the C-Tire cheapest Winchester,after 18 Collet die reloadings for my P-14,they are still good.
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