pushing 280 rem past max load

Kelly and Beth

Kelly and Beth

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Just wondering if anyone can tell me why it is that When I load for most of my rifles they seem to be could around the starting load if I go any higher with them they start to wonder that part I understand, What I don't understand is the harder I push my 280 rem (browning abolt II with a 1:9 twist) The better the accuracy gets better? i've pushed it a couple of grains over max load and get one hole groups at 150yrds (pressure seems good still). Now don't get me wrong I and not complaining just wondering if anyone else has encountered this.

kelly
 
Every rifle is a different thing, what may be an over max load in one rifle is OK in another. I had a 264 win mag that the best load, one holers was so hot it blew about 1 out of ten primers. I sold that gun.
 
In modern bolt actions rifles, best accuracy is usually attained rigth around maximum.

280 data *may* be soft, too, as the round was originally for an autoloader rifle. You can load up to 270 pressure with it.
 
Rifles that don't shoot well at high pressure probably have mechanical or design problems in the action (the most common being that the locking lugs don't touch on one side). I have a Kimber like that - 1" groups with start loads, 5+ inch groups with max or factory loads (I wish the previous owner had warned me about that before I spent a lot of time and money figuring that out, but oh well...)

280 Remington (like the 30-06 parent cartridge) is a very common round for hand loaders to push beyond factory/listed specs (mostly) without killing themselves. Don't get me wrong - I would NOT recommend hot loading ANY cartridge (I personally run almost all my loads at LEAST a grain below book max; makes my brass last a whole lot longer, and me a whole lot safer!) - but if you're going to do it, a 280 is probably a good choice of cartridge to do it with (as you've already found out by pushing it without blowing up the gun).

:)
 
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brotherjack said:
280 Remington (like the 30-06 parent cartridge) is a very common round for hand loaders to push beyond factory/listed specs (mostly) without killing themselves. Don't get me wrong - I would NOT recommend hot loading ANY cartridge (I personally run almost all my loads at LEAST a grain below book max; makes my brass last a whole lot longer, and me a whole lot safer!) - but if you're going to do it, a 280 is probably a good choice of cartridge to do it with (as you've already found out by pushing it without blowing up the gun).
:)
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This is excellent advise, as well, if you shoot in a varying climate because changes in ambient temperature can affect pressure. An over-max load that worked well for you in the fall may show pressure signs during the summer.

Max loads can also improve the accuracy of heavy/long bullets in slower-twist barrels because the faster velocity increases the spin rate which can improve stabilization.
 
martinbns said -- Every rifle is a different thing, what may be an over max load in one rifle is OK in another. I had a 264 win mag that the best load, one holers was so hot it blew about 1 out of ten primers. I sold that gun.

This is certainly true. I have another 30-06, an old rebarreled Remington, and it will stick the bolt on my reloads for the Husqvarna. Also, a german, good qulaity 243, will stick the bolt on reloads that my Ruger 77 handles with absolutely no exccesive pressure.
This is why I always stress to load for your own rifle, or one that you have shooting access to.
It's also worth noting that a good bolt action has lots of lee way on pressure. I wonder how much pressure the rifle martinbns had when it blew out the primers? In some Norma material they pointed out that it took something like 80,000 to 90,000 pounds to stretch the bases of their brass! I don't have that material in front of me, but I think the figures were something like that.
 
FWIW here is what I often see when working up loads with recent bolt actions:


Lower powder charge, good accuracy

Picture863-copy.jpg


Incres in powder charge but still good. (One round is a called flyer and I didn't bother to reshoot the group

Picture862-copy.jpg


Here it opens up a bit

Picture861-copy.jpg


Starting to look better

Picture860-copy.jpg


Max load, with good accuracy.

Picture859-copy.jpg


Good accuracy is often at top ends, and somewhere down lower,too.

Peopel used to suggest " a few grains off max for best acuracy" but I only find that true in older rifles, for the most part. And not every older rifle, and not older custom rifles.
 
Quickload is useful for stuff like this.
http://www.neconos.com/details3.htm


And no, it shouldn't be taken as gold (they tell you this, btw). But, one of the things it can do is warn you of pressure issues at higher temperatures. Its very popular with long range shooters on this side of the border.
 
Oddly enough, for the past few brand new rifles I've bought, the best accuracy was spot on what Hodgdon listed as 'max load,' right down to the tenth grain.
 
H4831 said:
martinbns said -- Every rifle is a different thing, what may be an over max load in one rifle is OK in another. I had a 264 win mag that the best load, one holers was so hot it blew about 1 out of ten primers. I sold that gun.

This is certainly true. I have another 30-06, an old rebarreled Remington, and it will stick the bolt on my reloads for the Husqvarna. Also, a german, good qulaity 243, will stick the bolt on reloads that my Ruger 77 handles with absolutely no exccesive pressure.
This is why I always stress to load for your own rifle, or one that you have shooting access to.
It's also worth noting that a good bolt action has lots of lee way on pressure. I wonder how much pressure the rifle martinbns had when it blew out the primers? In some Norma material they pointed out that it took something like 80,000 to 90,000 pounds to stretch the bases of their brass! I don't have that material in front of me, but I think the figures were something like that.
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No question too high, I didn't repeatedly shoot the loads. It was just far more accurate than any other. It was a 120 gr btip at 3400 fps, way too hot.
 
Wasn't being critical of you, martinbns, just pointing it out as an example of excessive pressure. I knew you were aware of what was going on.
 
I've seen one 280 that shot very good groups with hot loads, custom barrel ,and it didn't take long before the barrel was throat-ed to a point accuracy fell off. Accuracy with this cal goes back to using the very best (accurate) bullet you can find. Bill
 
Max loads

.
Everything has it's limits.

You have 55,000 pounds per square inch of pressure that is located SIX inches in front of your nose.

Pressures increase dramatically when you go over Maximum loads. A very small increase in powder can raise pressures enormously. Also, this assumes that all components will be good. A weak primer, faulty brass, small bore diameter, different primer or powder lot from one load to another, temperature, seating depth, neck tightness and/or crimp, and a dozen other factors come into being. Substituting a bullet from one maker with one of the same weight from another is courting disaster with a maximum load.

Accuracy should be the concern. It is no use having a bullet going like a bat out of hell if it doesn't hit what you are aiming at.

Personally, I would like to keep my nose intact. I load only my own ammunition, and not for anyone else. My insurance does not cover accidents and ammunition manufacturers can fight it in court.

A good safe handloader, with lots of experience, can and probably will push the limits a bit. But he knows what the pressure signs are.

Years ago I came across a guy who said he was handloading his own ammunition, and he said it had quite a kick to it. When I went to see what he was doing, I found out he did not have a proper powder scale, but had a balance scale.

His load was 35 grains of powder, but he did not have any proper weights.
SO, HE USED ASPIRINS AS A COUNTERWEIGHT. His reasoning was that an Aspirin weighed 5 grains (Aspirin advertised 5 grains of pain relief), so SEVEN of them would weigh 35 grains.

Yes, Aspirin does have 5 grains of pain relief. It also has 2 grains of a filler or binder material, making a total weight of 7 grains.

His 35 grain load turned out to be closer to 49 grains of powder.
.
 
Well, I agree with this, the SAAMI Rem .280 have a MAP of 60 000 PSI... The main problem with handload is that there is no way to know what the pressure of your load is. You can only guesstimate. I use Quickload, Load-From-A-Disk, and other programs, and they can't take in count every parameters...
A chrony, good attention to the pressure signs, thet's the real best you can achieve, unless you use a strain gauge.
These are the only ways to really know what we are doing.
Staying within the relaoding datas and the particular firearm limits is playing safe.
 
I've gone over the top with several different rifles in the past. It was never worth it. The few hundred feet per second you gain, and any other gains you might expect are just not worth the cost, in the safety aspect, and the wear and tear on your rifle, and brass. In every case (Now that's punny) I found a load at lower pressures that met my needs.
 
I have loaded for a Rem 700 Mountain Rifle in 280 Rem for years now and have experimented with it a lot but with heavier 140gr bullets.

I could never break 2850fps with any powder until I tried IMR 4350 wow vaulted me into the low 3000fps range with no pressure signs at all and about the best accuracy I have ever gotten out of this rifle with any load I have ever tried in it.

The 280 Rem is an excellent performing round that with lighter bullets is closer to 7mm mag performance levels than most know.
 
I got a 280 (700 LSS 24") and with most book max loads it runs half throttle (150s @ 2700 f/s) in my gun. When I pour a ####load of RL25 behind a 150 tsx or 154 sp it does 250 f/s more and shoots tighter too, with no real high pressure signs
 
Camp Cook said:
I have loaded for a Rem 700 Mountain Rifle in 280 Rem for years now and have experimented with it a lot but with heavier 140gr bullets.

I could never break 2850fps with any powder until I tried IMR 4350 wow vaulted me into the low 3000fps range with no pressure signs at all and about the best accuracy I have ever gotten out of this rifle with any load I have ever tried in it.

The 280 Rem is an excellent performing round that with lighter bullets is closer to 7mm mag performance levels than most know.
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I guess that proves all rifles are deff diff.
I could never get acceptable velocitys with either 4350s!
Mine 280 prefers slower powders like 4831 & even 7828 with 150 bullets, but I get got vels (3050fps av) with 139 horns with those slow powders too,
 
Interesting to note too, that the "maximum" shown in most of todays manuals (and even they vary by a grain or two) is a fair bit lower than the maximums shown back in the day. Compare a Speer No. 6 manual with the current version.
 
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