Question about Malayan emergency British Arms, 1950

L

Lahti

Member
Rating - 100%
7   0   0
Location
Nova Scotia
Hello,

My grandfather served as a medic/field surgeon in the Malayan emergency and spoke of his revolver, and at once instance having a semi automatic rifle handed to him. I have a decent understanding of most milsurp firearms but cannot figure out what those two might have been. I have no pictures, all the info I have is he was a member of the Scots Guards. I would assume a Webley Mk IV or VI, the only clarity he gave on it was that he was required to fire 50 rounds a month for proficiency tests. For the rifle, it was not issued to him but given to him by a wounded guardsman who was being evacuated and thought he could use the firepower as he was staying behind with a group awaiting some wounded. When it was handed to him, it was the first one he had ever handled so whatever it was he was not trained on it. Perhaps a garand?

I would like to at some point own the same arms he once carried, but without pictures and where he didn’t recall the details of the arms I thought this would be a reasonable place to ask. I am particularly puzzled on the rifle as I was under the impression lee enfields weren’t supplemented by the FAL until much later.

I appreciate any input on the matter.
 
For the revolver it could be a colt 38spcl, S&W victory model/ 1905 in 38/200 or 38S&W, S&W model 10/ M&P. I am not a revolver expert but all of these in some form have been used in the commonwealth. It could be the webley as you stated as well. Since hand guns are not vital to a successful military there are all sorts of procurement

Not sure on the rifle but M1 carbine or MAS 49 is a possibility. M1 carbine just seemed to turn up in places and France had some involvement with Malaysia. I would not rule out the FAL but it is unlikely.
 
Hello,

I appreciate the feedback. I suppose when you get into British revolvers of that time frame there are quite a few options. I was hoping his occupation/rank might narrow it down some but in a remote area like that who knows. For his time of service, he was in Malaya when the Korean War started (June 1950). He has since passed on so I can get no further details, but I do remember asking if it had a box magazine and he was unsure. One thing I left out of the first post: he was sufficiently unfamiliar with semi auto rifles that within a few minutes of being given it he had a negligent discharge into the ground. The men with him liked him enough they didn’t report it and he promptly gave it to another soldier who could make better use of it.
 
In 1950, the British Army was still using WW2 firearms. The rifle would have been either a No. 4 or No. 5. Both were used in Malaya.
The revolver could have been a Webley, Enfield or S&W, most likely .380.
 
The rifle would have invariably been an M1 Carbine. Post Korea, the British had discovered the advantages of semi-automatics especially for jungle fighting.
 
Hello, I appreciate the feedback. Is there any way that a scots guard would have ended up with a semi automatic rifle like an M1 Carbine or Garand in that part of the world? The only reason I think it wasn’t an enfield is he was familiar with those to some level from training and did insist it was a semi automatic. Mind you I was talking to him 60 years after he was there and he wasn’t very knowledgeable in small arms, but it being an ‘autoloading’ was something he specifically stated which is what got me curious. Whatever it was it was rare enough that it stood out to him, and the man who gave it to him specifically did so as he saw he was an officer and assumed he would know what to do with it. I by no means wish to be one who perpetuates rumors about things showing up where they wouldn’t have been but given his insistence on it being an autoloading rifle specifically I thought I’d ask.. If there’s never been any evidence of that sort of rifle in that part of the world it very well might have been an enfield, but he was adamant it was an autoloading rifle.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
The rifle would have invariably been an M1 Carbine. Post Korea, the British had discovered the advantages of semi-automatics especially for jungle fighting.
Click to expand...

I have seen photos of British troops with the M1 carbine , the US had a huge inventory of M1 carbines , 6 million carbines manufactured, most mass produced military firearm in a short time frame, 4 years , 1942 - 1945
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine (See Service history)
e1217f33e66e45ec577dc89dc1eee39a.jpg
 
Last edited:
As has been said , most likely the rifle was a American M1 carbine or maybe a M2 , the revolver, as also, has been said, could of been a S&W Victory model or a Enfield, depending if it had a swing out cylinder or top break.

If you're interested about the "Malaysian Emergency " , theres a good book by Noel Barber , called The War of The Running Dogs , its a easy read and covers the conflict from start to finish , because of this thread, I'm going to dig up my copy and read it again. Lol
 
Slightly off topic, Carbines were widely distributed in private circles too. Like the OP I had a brain cramp when hearing an audiobook about an escaped NAZI living in Argentina. He was some sort of peripheral character in his second life after having been a big wheel in Germany. One thing his friend, who turned out to be either a Jewish NAZI hunter or another source handler, took him out to the country to shoot. It was a dominance thing. Who was going to do better at shooting. The commentator, like the OP's elderly father, was not knowledgeable of firearms but knew enough to call it an 'American rifle'. My thoughts were, what an M1 Garand? But later I realized they were firing an M1 Carbine.
 
This link will help you. http://wingedsoldiers.co.uk/sas-malaya.html
The SAS was reformed for Malaya after having been stood down at the end of WWll. A friend of mine was a patrol comdr with SAS .. he said they did deep jungle patrols for 3 months at a time with a weekly resupply by parachute drop. They were 15 men patrols allocated into 3 three man patrols, an officer, sr nco and 3 aboriginals that carried the wireless set, batteries and their own food (they could not eat the military rations) there was also a Sarawak tracker. The patrols could call on reinforcements by parachute when needed
 
Hello, I appreciate all of the input on the matter, and will make sure to read the recommended book.
Based on what I’ve heard it sounds like without a picture turning up the revolver could be any one of several Enfields or Webleys. Seems that it was most likely an M1 Carbine, interesting that the British made ammunition for them. It definitely was a rifle, he was familiar enough with sten guns to refer to them by name in other stories. One of his doctor colleagues in Canada actually used one to scare off a gang who was harassing him for drugs at one point, it made quite an impression and they left him alone after that. Things were different in the 60’s it seems.

I thank everyone for the input and am happy that I now know what the rifle was at least. As for the revolver I suppose I’m out of luck unless I find a picture of it
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom