Questions about Min. OAL & Max. OAL

Luger9

Luger9

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Ok here's the thing.

I just loaded some 9mm ammo and once all my powder was in the cases I was happy to start seating bullets. My die was set, to what I thought was a good length, and I started seating.

My manual and other documentation states that the Max. OAL for 9mm Luger should be no longer than 1.169 inches. Min. OAL for the load I was using should have been no shorter than 1.150 inches.

So I seated all my bullets at 1.150 inches and I went to the range to test this out. Didn't even get to shoot because the bullets wouldn't feed....:eek: :eek: :eek:

I couldn't figure it out. So tonight I took an empty case, seated a bullet until it fit, fed and ejected properly and my length is down to 1.100 inches.

I'm so friggin confused now. Isn't this Max. OAL for all 9mm cartridges? Does seating the bullet at lower than Min. OAL create a danger?

I'm using Montana Gold 121gr IFP, with 4.7grs of Green Dot.....this recipe is downloaded from the 125gr FMJ with Green Dot, this is where I got the Min. OAL.

Help Please!!!!
 
Max OAL is 1.169
Min OAL is 1.090 IIRC

I think 1.150 is WAY to long for a 9MM, especially with that load.

What gun are you using it in?
I load my 124Gr CMJ Frontiers to 1.115 with 6.4Gr of HS-6.
 
scotty said:
I think 1.150 is WAY to long for a 9MM, especially with that load.

What gun are you using it in?
Click to expand...


That's just it, I can't even get the slide fully forward with a cartridge that's loaded at 1.150 inches. I was following the length for a 125gr bullet, maybe I should have been looking at the length for a 115gr bullet instead.

I'm using a CZ 75B and the stuff I use from Combat Masters is around 1.115 and that loads ok, I'm seeing that the types of powder really do make a difference....sizes for Green Dot compared to others are quite different.

As I'm sure you've figured out by now.....this is my first time reloading. I'm going to have to keep fine tuning this until I find the right mix.
 
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I came across this same problem loading 45ACP. I found the best way to troubleshoot was to take my barrel out of my hand gun and compare the fit between loaded rounds and factory ones. Then I monkey'd around with the OAL and crimp until I got a round that was within spec and fit in nicely.
 
Luger9 said:
I couldn't figure it out. So tonight I took an empty case, seated a bullet until it fit, fed and ejected properly and my length is down to 1.100 inches.
Click to expand...

So are you saying that 1.100 was the longest that you could get one to fit, fed, chamber and eject? I don't have any load data for 121Gr but I see MIN OAL listed of 1.130 for 120Gr.
 
FWIW my 9mm load is MG 147gr CMJ withTitegroup loaded to 1.150. Never had a problem feeding my Sig, Glock or Walther.
 
scotty said:
So are you saying that 1.100 was the longest that you could get one to fit, fed, chamber and eject? I don't have any load data for 121Gr but I see MIN OAL listed of 1.130 for 120Gr.
Click to expand...

That's what I have, but I think I may have inadvertently pushed the bullet in too much. I should be able to feed them at 1.115 no problem....I think I may have bypassed that lenght when I was seating the bullet.

What was worrying me was going below the Min. OAL.
 
adriel said:
I came across this same problem loading 45ACP. I found the best way to troubleshoot was to take my barrel out of my hand gun and compare the fit between loaded rounds and factory ones. Then I monkey'd around with the OAL and crimp until I got a round that was within spec and fit in nicely.
Click to expand...

That's what I did too, much easier to see what fits and prevents you from getting a jam.
 
Do you have enough crimp? Can you measure the diameter at the mouth of the case and compare to a factory round? What is the diameter of the bullet? Are they round nose or a different profile?

As stated above, take a factory round and put it in the barrel and see how it fits. Compare with yours.

I have had no problem with my CZ75 and long rounds. The last I have used were 130g round nose bullets with a OAL of about 1.160.
 
I might as well give you guys some pics to work with...

Here is a comparison of both bullets. On the left is Combat Masters (124gr FMJ), on the right is mine (121gr IFP).
Compare.jpg


Shot of the caliper:
The Combat Master's stuff is at 1.120...
CombatMasters124.jpg

....and mine at 1.152.
My121.jpg


Last but not least, here is how it fits in the chamber. You will be able to see the obvious difference with mine not going all the way in.

Combat Masters
Fit124.jpg

Mine
Fit121.jpg


I guess the CZ barrel wasn't made to take max. length cartridges.
 
Rudy H said:
Do you have enough crimp? Can you measure the diameter at the mouth of the case and compare to a factory round? What is the diameter of the bullet? Are they round nose or a different profile?

As stated above, take a factory round and put it in the barrel and see how it fits. Compare with yours.

I have had no problem with my CZ75 and long rounds. The last I have used were 130g round nose bullets with a OAL of about 1.160.
Click to expand...

...sorry just saw your post after I submitted mine. To answer your question, yes I do have enough crimp, I also thought that this could be the problem but I measured, and mine versus the other stuff both have a crimped diameter of 0.476.

It must be the bullet shape that's causing this problem. Bullet is "IFP - International Full Profile"....i.e. semi-jacketed flatpoint.
 
Luger9 said:
I might as well give you guys some pics to work with...

Here is a comparison of both bullets. On the left is Combat Masters (124gr FMJ), on the right is mine (121gr IFP).
Compare.jpg
Click to expand...

You have to have a shorter length due to the profile of the bullet. If you were to pretend the bullet on the right had the additional pointy part then it would be way to long.

Your bullet on the right has a lot more of the body of the bullet sticking out of the case. It is hiting the rifling and getting stuck without being able to close the action and without the case being able to be chambered.

Even if you could get this to fit in the barrel I would be surprised if it would feed properly in the gun.
 
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waynesixgun said:
What is the dia. of the bullet that you are using?
Click to expand...

.355

Rudy H said:
You have to have a shorter length due to the profile of the bullet. If you were to pretend the bullet on the right had the additional pointy part then it would be way to long.

Your bullet on the right has a lot more of the body of the bullet sticking out of the case. It is hiting the rifling and getting stuck without being able to close the action and without the case being able to be chambered.
Click to expand...

Thanks, this is what I was wondering. It was the only thing left in my "process of elimination", that could have answered for why it wasn't feeding.

Now I just have to pull all of what I loaded and try it again. I'll post an update this weekend, once the new measurements have been tested at the range.

Thanks to everyone who posted, it was all a great help.
 
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Compare.jpg


With that syle of bullet you want a shorter length than a regular cone shaped bullet. The photo above illustrates what you are doing. I added the cone that is missing from your loaded round. This is in effect what you are loading.

Point A is going to hit the rifling and will be stopped short. What you want is more like in B. At that point the diameter is the same for the tuncated bullet and the cone shaped bullet. Above that point they both taper and will allow chambering (the bullets won't bit the rifling).

I wouldn't pull the bullets. I would adjust the die ao the bullet will be pushed lower into the case but don't change the crimp from what you have. Don't move the body of the die (which effects the crimp) but only the screw in portion that effects the bullet seating.
 
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Rudy H said:
Compare.jpg


With that syle of bullet you want a shorter length than a regular cone shaped bullet. The photo above illustrates what you are doing. I added the cone that is missing from your loaded round. This is in effect what you are loading.

Point A is going to hit the rifling and will be stopped short. What you want is more like in B. At that point the diameter is the same for the tuncated bullet and the cone shaped bullet. Above that point they both taper and will allow chambering (the bullets won't bit the rifling).
Click to expand...

Nice work.....are you a teacher, if not, you should be. Excellent explanation, clear and concise.
 
Luger9 said:
Nice work.....are you a teacher, if not, you should be. Excellent explanation, clear and concise.
Click to expand...

I thought I was just rambling. :redface: I didn't have time to read what I wrote since I'm at work now and should be working. I hoped it was clear enough.
 
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