Questions about R. Jones pinfire revolver

[myenfield]

I was asked by the owner to see what I could find out about this pinfire revolver. It is named to R. Jones 6 Chapel St. Liverpool. R. Jones turns up in some books and online, but I don't see any listing to this address. Also, from what I have been reading this is most likely a Beligan made revolver but I don't see the typical Belgian proof marks. In fact, the marking on the back of the cylinder doesn't look like anything I have ever seen before. I was hoping some of you with more experience in this field could fill in some blanks, especially when this was made. Thanks for anything you can offer.

 

[Pinfire]

The revolver appears to have been made by Guillaume-Joseph Meyers of Liege. Belgium, and retailed by Robert Jones of Liverpool. Meyers obtained seven patents in Belgium between 1866 and 1879.

There were at least three generations of gun-making Robert Jones -- the first Robert (born 1801) was recorded as a gun maker in 1826 at 27 Stanhope Street, Liverpool. He was the son of John Benjamin Jones (born 1782 in Llanagan, Wales), who was probably a gun maker. Robert moved in 1830 to 32 Stanhope Street, and in 1846 he moved to 9 Waterloo Road with additional premises at 53 Oldhall Street. In the 1851 census, he was recorded as a gun maker aged 50 living at 67 Stanhope Street with his wife, Ann E and their children Robert (born 1833), Catherine, Richard, Edmund, and Joseph S.

Robert Jones (senior) was almost certainly the cousin of Robert Jones, who was recorded as a gunsmith in the 1851 census and resided at 9a Waterloo Road. Confused yet? In 1855 the business moved to 32 Great Howard Street. The 1861 census records Ann E as a widow living at 26 Stanhope Street, so Robert senior must have died sometime before that year. It appears the business was being run by their son Robert. He was living at 3 Great Howard Street with his wife, Ann, and their son, also named Robert (born 1859). !n the 1871 census Robert had moved from Great Howard Street to 11 Stuarts Road, Tranmere, Birkenhead. At this time he was living with Ann, his son Robert, and five more children.

In about 1874 the business moved to 60 Dale Street, and at some time between 1874 and 1890, the firm had additional premises at 6 Chapel Street, the address on your revolver. In the 1881 census Robert, aged 47, described himself as a master gunmaker employing 2 men and 1 boy. In 1885 he emigrated with his family to the USA, leaving his son Robert (the third generation) in charge of the Liverpool business. Robert settled in New York and died there in 1905. His son continued the Liverpool business, then at 42 Manchester Street, until it closed in 1917.

 

[myenfield]

Thanks very much for the detailed information on the maker. That settles one question. What about that odd scrolled marking on the back of the cylinder? Any ideas? I was under the impression that most Belgian made guns that were retailed in the UK would have Belgian proofs but I did read something about it being acceptable to ship them unproofed as long as they were proofed in the country they were being sold in. Unfortunately most of my knowledge lies in milsup and antique stuff is still a little murky for me.

 

[Pinfire]

Thanks very much for the detailed information on the maker. That settles one question. What about that odd scrolled marking on the back of the cylinder? Any ideas? I was under the impression that most Belgian made guns that were retailed in the UK would have Belgian proofs but I did read something about it being acceptable to ship them unproofed as long as they were proofed in the country they were being sold in. Unfortunately most of my knowledge lies in milsup and antique stuff is still a little murky for me.

Revolvers are outside my comfort zone, and on your revolver, the barrel marks are far from clear. There appears to be a London view mark on the frame. The cylinder mark may be a maker's mark, but I am not familiar with markings that may appear on a Meyers revolver. Firearms in England around this time were subject to the Gun Barrel Proof Act (of 1868, replacing the Act of 1855), requiring barrels and actions to be marked in London or Birmingham; imported guns had to be subjected to proof testing, even if carrying foreign marks. The foreign marks could be removed or left on, as long as the gun was proofed in London or Birmingham. If I'm not mistaken, imported guns had to be delivered to the proof house within seven days. Of course, there were cheats. Foreign guns not re-proofed, counterfeit marks, etc. But even a misdemeanor offence could get you two years of hard labour, and a twenty pound fine, a considerable sum in those days.

The bottom line is it can be sometimes impossible to decipher all marks on a Victorian-era gun, either locally-made or imported. Marks can be unclear to start with, or made unclear through aggressive cleaning and rust, and outside the standard view, provisional and definitive marks, there is no record or register for the myriad makers' marks which served no purpose other than a craftsman's pride, or determining how much a journeyman worker might get paid at the end of the week. It is a happy day when, from initials or a symbol, one can pin down the individuals who worked on a gun -- but it doesn't happen often.

 

[snurge]

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