Hi all, I'm curious about the process of de-sporterizing milsurp rifles. For something like a K98 or an Enfield, is it a pretty simple matter? (getting the appropriate parts, stocks, bands, etc). I see some pretty conflicting information out there on other strange steps, like needing to worry about barrel lengths being different.
Questions on process of De-sporterizing
- Thread starter Majo.Dump
- Start date
The supply of suitable parts for restoration is dwindling.
There is also the question of whether a representative specimen is desired or whether the restoration is to bring the piece back to its original condition as manufactured. For example, restoring a 1941 Long Branch is very difficult because many of the parts were specific to 1941 production and are hard to locate. Restoring the rifle to look like a generic issue No. 4 is easier.
If major metal parts have been altered - receiver drilled and tapped for a scope, barrel cut, etc. - restoration becomes even more challenging.
It is easy to spend more on the project than the thing is worth when the project is finished, because parts costs have risen, and a rebuilt bitser is less desirable than an unaltered original.
I am currently working on a SMLE I have converted to a .22, simulating a No. 2 Mk. IV rifle. The two handguards and forend cost more than the barrelled action, including lining the barrel to .22.
There is also the question of whether a representative specimen is desired or whether the restoration is to bring the piece back to its original condition as manufactured. For example, restoring a 1941 Long Branch is very difficult because many of the parts were specific to 1941 production and are hard to locate. Restoring the rifle to look like a generic issue No. 4 is easier.
If major metal parts have been altered - receiver drilled and tapped for a scope, barrel cut, etc. - restoration becomes even more challenging.
It is easy to spend more on the project than the thing is worth when the project is finished, because parts costs have risen, and a rebuilt bitser is less desirable than an unaltered original.
I am currently working on a SMLE I have converted to a .22, simulating a No. 2 Mk. IV rifle. The two handguards and forend cost more than the barrelled action, including lining the barrel to .22.
As a starting point, a clean intact barrelled action is nice to have.
Before committing to the project, it is a good idea to research the availability of the parts you are going to need. Most anything can be found, if you look long enough, hard enough and are prepared to spend enough. Might not be practical though.
I made up a faux 1903A4 sniper rifle, starting with a badly bubba'd 03A3. A friend here helped me with the stock and handguard. The small metal bits were easy to find. I had a scope altered bolt from a Midland 2100, commercial base and rings, and a 330 Weaver scope. Looks good, shoots great, cost was very reasonable.
If you want to bring tears to your eyes, try to put a M-1 rifle together from parts, starting with one of the very inexpensive receivers. A C No. 7 Mk. I .22 is in the same category. Receivers are cheap. The only part that is.
Before committing to the project, it is a good idea to research the availability of the parts you are going to need. Most anything can be found, if you look long enough, hard enough and are prepared to spend enough. Might not be practical though.
I made up a faux 1903A4 sniper rifle, starting with a badly bubba'd 03A3. A friend here helped me with the stock and handguard. The small metal bits were easy to find. I had a scope altered bolt from a Midland 2100, commercial base and rings, and a 330 Weaver scope. Looks good, shoots great, cost was very reasonable.
If you want to bring tears to your eyes, try to put a M-1 rifle together from parts, starting with one of the very inexpensive receivers. A C No. 7 Mk. I .22 is in the same category. Receivers are cheap. The only part that is.
Getting original wood and finding a barreled action with an original barrel and undicked with receiver is a great start. I've restored a number of No 4 LEs and M1903 Springfields to original military specs.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
For "restoring" many like M1917 or P14, have to decide what era you are going to make it look like. P14 - pre-weedon overhaul, or post overhaul? Pre-1916 or post (needs several parts including stock with the "asterisk" marking). M1917 - WWI or after WWII refurbishment? Different years - different finishes on the metal. Easily several hundred dollars of reference books here that disagree on which parts are supposed to be marked with which marks. Recent example from past 24 months - a more or less unmolested M1917 with military sights and full military barrel - $250. Reproduction stocks, plus the stock furniture metal - most turned out to be reproduction or re-finished "DP" marked - pretty much $500 to my post office box in Manitoba. So $750 before even turning a screw, and will not resemble any issued arm.
It is a fun pastime - can get absolutely lost in the detail - and then get to look at a so-called "numbers matching" for sale and understand what it is that you are looking at.
It is a fun pastime - can get absolutely lost in the detail - and then get to look at a so-called "numbers matching" for sale and understand what it is that you are looking at.
- Location
- WMU248 near Edmonton
for the most part a common run of the mill No4 enfield is not really economically worth the time and effort.
early production rifles if you can find the parts would be worth the effort.
and if the barrel is cut short or shot out then again it is just not worth the effort.
early production rifles if you can find the parts would be worth the effort.
and if the barrel is cut short or shot out then again it is just not worth the effort.
Desert Seagull
CGN frequent flyer
Tiriaq, what do you think of repro LE furniture? While not "authentic", seems kinda neat to have brand new wood for a keeper. I would imagine the fit & finish on new wood is probably better than wartime production wood, which is good, and bad!
I have no experience with it apart from the handguards on my .22 SMLE. These were almost finished, ready for the metal bits. Good quality, worth using, but not finished, ready to use. Fitting to the rifle and finish needed.
Any NOS wood I've seen is high quality.
Any NOS wood I've seen is high quality.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Depending on year and country, Lee Enfield stocks were made of American Black Walnut, Birch and Beech, at least. May be other types of wood as well - Australian No. 1's used a unique Australian wood??
As a potential money making venture - not worth it at all. But, as a project for enjoyment and bringing back some authenticity to a piece, it's a noble pursuit.
As mentioned, NOS parts are getting harder to come by every day. "Proper" NOS wood bits can be near unobtanium, especially Lee-Enfield forends. Metal parts can be easier to find, but you're going to pay a premium as parts become more and more scarce. As noted, you'll often end up paying more for the various parts than you would for an unmolested example from the get go. I know I researched the cost of "restoring" a P14 a year or so ago and it was going to be $500+ just to get the various bits needed; and that was before the dollar started to take a beating.
As mentioned, NOS parts are getting harder to come by every day. "Proper" NOS wood bits can be near unobtanium, especially Lee-Enfield forends. Metal parts can be easier to find, but you're going to pay a premium as parts become more and more scarce. As noted, you'll often end up paying more for the various parts than you would for an unmolested example from the get go. I know I researched the cost of "restoring" a P14 a year or so ago and it was going to be $500+ just to get the various bits needed; and that was before the dollar started to take a beating.
Building up military rifles is very time consuming.
First you need a matching military receiver, bolt,original barrel in vg++ condition with original finish
Then you need to find original vg++ matching wood and metal fittings and original complete sights
Not very easy to do, last thing are the tools needed to assembly it
Enfield Wood is very hard to make up sets
First you need a matching military receiver, bolt,original barrel in vg++ condition with original finish
Then you need to find original vg++ matching wood and metal fittings and original complete sights
Not very easy to do, last thing are the tools needed to assembly it
Enfield Wood is very hard to make up sets
I've found all M1903 and 03A3 Springfield parts in NOS condition over the years, but they are getting tougher to find now. Last month I stripped the cosmolene and wrap off a NOS M1903 barrel made by High Standard in April 1944. I installed in on a M1903 Mark I receiver and completed the build with mostly NOS parts and some re-parkerized parts. My range is closed due to COVID19, so no test fire and zero yet.
If a sported rifle's stock is cut in front of the band, a splice is possible, the joint being concealed under the band. This is a viable option for Ross rifle restoration. I've done a few this way.
In my tickle trunk is a Snider 3 band stock which was in a fire. The butt is burned; from just in front of the breech to the tip it is intact and presentable. Got it in a load of salvage and have kept it against the day that I need to restore a Snider.
Sometimes businesses have parts. Sometimes the EE is the best bet. There are quite a number of us who never throw anything out, against the day it might be needed. Easy to place an ad.
In my tickle trunk is a Snider 3 band stock which was in a fire. The butt is burned; from just in front of the breech to the tip it is intact and presentable. Got it in a load of salvage and have kept it against the day that I need to restore a Snider.
Sometimes businesses have parts. Sometimes the EE is the best bet. There are quite a number of us who never throw anything out, against the day it might be needed. Easy to place an ad.
infideleggwelder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I will post a pic after work of my "restored" No1 MkIII with a spliced fore end and upper hand guards that I made. its very dark finish to hide the splice, but it is intended for my own enjoyment and I did it to see if it could be done and remain aesthetically pleasing
infideleggwelder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The dark one has a spliced sporter stock
