Radom VIS German holsters (photos) (UPDATED 20-06-2016)

Squadron303

Squadron303

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I thought I'd show off a few of my holsters for the Radom VIS P35(p).

The first black holster is my favourite. It is a very faint '[bnz]' stamped German holster. Leather is all intact and still soft, but not floppy. It was brown, dyed black (as the Nazis did, to match their black leathers).

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The second one is an early-to-mid-war holster, with ,P35(p)' stamped, with what looks to be a soldier's name. Can't speak to the authenticity of the name, but everything else about the holster is correct and authentic. It is more rigid than the black holster.

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Here's one that looks to have been through a lot in its long life. The stamps are faint but readable. The leather is very soft and fragile, but still holds its form very well. It has been slightly modified throughout the years, but it still keeps its authentic feel. This one might be up for grabs to make room for another [bnz] stamped holster.

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Here's a new one. It's a late war, BNZ marked holster, with an unreadable WaA stamp. It's stamped with a (b) [Browning Hi-Power designation] instead of a (p) [Radom Vis designation]. No one seems to know why some holsters were stamped in such a way. It also has a strange '20' stamped on the leather clasp. I've never seen that before either. In any case, here it is.

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I hope you enjoyed the post. These holsters are somewhat difficult to come by these days in great shape, and authentic.
 
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Nice Radom holsters.

This is the only Radom holster that I own.
It is black –‘bnz’ marked –with P35(p) and WaA182.
It has the lift up strap.

The eagle/ WaA marking is not often visible on these holsters.

There was a time that I saved photos of various Radom holsters with different markings and variations of colours and condition. I have quite a few photos of these holsters in my holster archive.





 
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These Radom holsters are not mine---but they show different colours of brown and tan.
They also show the 'bnz' and 'grz' manufacturer's markings.









A 'grz' marked holster. (The 'grz' holsters have a different shape.)



 
There were a few slightly different variations of these holsters, in terms of color and different shapes. To authenticate, one must look at the holster as a whole, to make sure it all "fits". The most telling way to authenticate is to look inside for the imprint of the VIS. fake ones, mostly coming out of China (and sold on eBay), might have been 'formed' around a VIS, but it is very difficult to truly "wear it in" on the inside. The muzzle circle on the bottom (inside) would be pretty difficult to fake unless someone actually wore their VIS enough to form one.

Just as there were a few different individual makers for the pre-war Polish holsters, it is safe to assume that during the middle of combat the Germans had a few different leather sources and makers.

At the end of the day, if it feels right for you, and it makes you happy, authentic or not, it's a good holster.
 
From what I understand both 'bnz' and 'grz' used the same code WaA182.

I agree with you HOWEVER, in some cases there are holsters that are almost unused where no imprints of the gun is visible.

WaA182 grz Krüger Breslau 1944

WaA182 bnz Steyr-Daimler-Puch Steyr Austria 1944

WaA513 gaq Otto Stephan Mühlhausen, Thür. 1944


Eagle/WaA182 code seen on a 'grz' manufactured holster.



A black 'gaq' manufactured holster.



A very difficult to find Kreigsmarine (German Navy) marked 'bnz' Radom holster. (Eagle over M.)

 
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drm3m said:
From what I understand both 'bnz' and 'grz' used the same code WaA182.

I agree with you HOWEVER, in some cases there are holsters that are almost unused where no imprints of the gun is visible.
Click to expand...

You're right. I'm about to acquire one of those where it looks seldom used. Like I said before, it's very difficult to fake ALL the correct features (like the correct hardware, for example) that's why the holster should be looked as a whole.

Very informative post, thanks, I appreciate it. Just when I thought I knew a lot about these..
 
I ran across this interesting comment posted by a fellow from Warsaw on Jan Still’s Forum.

The "bnz" holsters are much more common because they are NOT a single manufacturer. The "bnz" stamp only says that they were accepted by Steyr, but if you take a look at a wild variation of styles of stamps inside and different execution of the various holsters stamped "bnz" in the same year, you'd never take them seriously to emanate out of the same manufacturer. Interesting thing: there was a leather goods manufacturing company in Radom, which was making pistol holsters - "lyo" - but as far as it is known, they have NEVER made a single P35p holster, manufacturing only Luger and P38 holsters!
Prior to 1944 no other manufacturers are marked than the "bnz" (which was manufacturing them) the "grz" and "gaq" were active only in 1944 (grz and gaq) and 1945 (only gaq).

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Another fellow posted the photos of the three beautiful holsters shown below.
The two brown holsters have pull up straps. The black does not.






From what I understand the earlier Radom holsters had the pull up strap----the later ones did not.
The photo below shows my black ‘bnz’ Steyr accepted holster with the pull up strap.



The stitching seen on the rear of the holster is for the pull up strap.

 
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Comment from Jerry Burney (the holster Guru) regarding a photo of a holster that was posted on Jan Still's Forum.

"Your BNZ 1944 holster has a pull-up strap. That would generally not be found on such a late Radom holster."


Another comment from the fellow from Warsaw.

The grz black holster is perfectly matching the 2nd alphabet pistol. The manufacturer stamp is actually grz 194 - which in synch with German style of economizing on stamps by using 1943 with chiseled-out "3" as long as they lasted into 1944. Same style was used on ammunition, where single "4" equalled "44" - this was BTW taken over by the US Lake City Army Ammmuintion Plant which also stamped "4" for "44" with left-over 1943 stamps until these were used-up.

Some additional flap marking photos----a bit of a puzzling subject.







Two more unusual Radom holsters.

Magazine pouch enlarged to accomodate the FN High Power magazine.





Brown bnz marked holster with black coloured flap and white markings---P(35b)
Only a Radom magazine will fit in the pouch----not a High Power magazine.







I have not been able to find a date that the pull up strap was discontinued--nobody seems to know for sure.
Late war holsters did not have the strap-----but how late is the question???
 
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drm3m said:
Comment from Jerry Burney (the holster Guru) regarding a photo of a holster that was posted on Jan Still's Forum.

"Your BNZ 1944 holster has a pull-up strap. That would generally not be found on such a late Radom holster."


Another comment from the fellow from Warsaw.

The grz black holster is perfectly matching the 2nd alphabet pistol. The manufacturer stamp is actually grz 194 - which in synch with German style of economizing on stamps by using 1943 with chiseled-out "3" as long as they lasted into 1944. Same style was used on ammunition, where single "4" equalled "44" - this was BTW taken over by the US Lake City Army Ammmuintion Plant which also stamped "4" for "44" with left-over 1943 stamps until these were used-up.

Some additional flap marking photos----a bit of a puzzling subject.





Click to expand...

Very nice examples.
 
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A very nice looking holster---P35(b) marking.
(See if a High Power magazine will fit in the magazine pouch.)
The High Power magazine (top) is much wider than the Radom magazine.(Requiring a modification of the magazine pouch on the Radom holster.)




From what I understand the Radom holsters that have been modified to accept the High Power magazines are quite rare.

In your last photo showing the flap markings there seems to be a WaA stamp-----do you what WaA number is there?

The holster below shows a High Power magazine in the mag pouch.



A commentary regarding these P35(b) holsters from three very knowledgeable people.
(None of these are my comments--these guys know far more than I do regarding these Radom holsters.)

A point of interest so far not mentioned, is the marking P.35(b), not (p). Enough "Radom" style holsters are encountered with this mark to make it seem that it is intentional. Or is it just a fluke in the stamp? All that I have observed are bnz 1944 marked. Other mfg. or dates may be out there.

It is a "Radom" holster, within the collecting community it has been questioned, were these so marked to be used with the High Power or is it a stamp that simply has the (p) inverted to (b).

A High Power will readily fit in a "Radom" holster, the magazine will not.

I have a couple of Radom holsters with the 'b' marking, but the magazine pouch only takes a Radom magazine.

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The P35(p) was the Nazi designation for the Radom made VIS pistol.
The P35(b) was their designation for the FN Browning 1935 .
 
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I don't own that light brown 'bnz' yet, I'm looking into acquiring it.

Not sure what WaA marking those are. I find them usually the most difficult to ready -small font and runny ink... plus 70 years. Is there a better way to try to read it, other than just moving it under different lights? And it sure doesn't look like a browning magazine will fit into the mag pouch though.

I've seen a few of the stamps with P35(b) instead of (p).. and I also knew about the designation for the Browning Hi Power. Is it possible in the last year they just mixed up the stamps? They sure rushed out the gun, as evidence by the machine marks and poorer finish on the late pieces.

That last picture clearly shows a late war 'bnz' with the pull strap. Maybe we incorrectly assume that the pull strap was abandoned earlier that it really was.


Also, the third holster I showcased has a ,,P35" stamp and a worn WaA stamp on it.. The holster is just worn and it was difficult to spot when I received it. Here is a picture again. It shows better in person.

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This comment from the fellow from Warsaw on Jan Still’s Luger Forum makes a lot of sense to me.

"The "bnz" holsters are much more common because they are NOT a single manufacturer. The "bnz" stamp only says that they were accepted by Steyr, but if you take a look at a wild variation of styles of stamps inside and different execution of the various holsters stamped "bnz" in the same year, you'd never take them seriously to emanate out of the same manufacturer".

I purchased the only Radom holster that I have back in November 2003 just after I bought my only Radom pistol.

I knew nothing about these holsters back then.
The blurred flap ink markings of ‘bnz’—P35(p) and no clear date marking are not enclosed in a box as many are.
The eagle/WaA is quite clear. The number after WaA shows 82---if there was a ‘1’ before the 82 it is not visible. (i.e. WaA182)






If I was looking for a Radom holster today I would try and find one with the clearest WaA marking possible.
Many holsters don’t have these markings so it can be a challenge.

The clearest WaA182 marked holster that I have seen is the ‘grz’ marked holster shown below.



Heereswaffenamt WaA182 on Radom holsters.

- Gebr. Krüger, Lederwarenfabrik u. Lederfärberei, Freiburgerstraße 36, Breslau 5, Polen
- –Code ‘grz’

-Steyr-Daimler-Puch AG, Werk Steyr, Österreich----Code ‘bnz’
 
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^^^
That is a nice holster.

I think the problem with finding one with really clear marks would be that it could be a repro. I had one with very clear markings that I just sold, and I believe it was a repro (I indicated that). Actually, most that I've come across with crystal-clear markings have been repro.
Anyhow, great information, thanks for sharing. I hope this helps others as it's helpe me. I thought I knew a lot about these holsters - learn something new everyday.
 
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