RANT about guides in Canada and TV

[greywolf]

I would like to know were buddy found the info that non residents get mulie tags in sask, searched there 2008 hunting regs and papers and it all says RESIDENT ONLY ?

You didn't look too hard then check on page 2 and 3 of the hunting guide, first off on page 2, it says they are no longer offering the EXCESS licenses for sale over the phone (i wasn't aware of that . BUT! on page 3 under chronic wasting disease mgmt prog it clearly (yeah right, in lite blue) states that for the first time this year they are offering outright, no draw no nothing tages to nonresident canadians for 20$, As for paying the tag fee in bc , i certainly still pay that, only thing I don't pay for is the outfitter, never said i didn't pay it, i happen to know the outfitter very well, Myself and a friend get invited up every year and every year i go , so if you want to go let me know, and you can bypass the draw , and get a tag and outfitter for the price of your tag fee now to address the rest, really i'm not trying to be rude here or anything , but do you guys really read the entire post? i have said many times I have no prob paying more than everyone else that doesn't live in bc, i have a prob with the obvious gouging by gov't and outfitters, IF tho , you are a top notch outfitter , fine is same as going to crappy tire to service your car for 50$ hr or going to the dealership for 100$ hr. So if you are say JIm Shockey, I would expect to pay much more, but if you are joe blow , who happened to get a guiding/outfitting license , then i should not have to pay Jim's rate, for that guy , got a prob with that ? I firmly believe if i must hire an outfitter, then let the price be reasonable , so IF you Win the draw or whatever , you have a fair chance of going , whether you make 20k a year or 200k a year. understanding the point yet ? And btw , I have paid More taxes in BC between 1989 to 1998 than you prob made in those years.
Yeah I can afford the top notch outfitter , but that is not the point and is another matter entirely. I am lucky enough to own everything I have outright, including my house, i owe nothing to anybody(in general) So Again I have no prob paying more , I have a prob with exhorbitant fees, charged to fellow canadians and treated the same as you biggest customers (us citizen) it is an insult to canada, pay more ? sure understood and agree'd with , but NOT 1030 for a tag, while you pay a 10th of that, and then FORCED to take an outfitter, What does being forced to take an outfitter have to do with conservation ? nothing, at least they can sort of justify the license as $ for conservation efforts , and I would agree and prob have tno prob with that if they knocked out the requirement for CANADIAN residents from having to have an outfitter, you have your place IF , I want one. Another point, I still own A home in oakbay, so i should still be considered a resident , I still pay taxes in BC ( property taxes still partially go to the province yes /no ?) Only Outfitters don't want the laws to change , because it would cut into their profits , same as any other business, the gov't doesn't belong in any business , want me to buy your "product" ? compete like everyone else, don't hide behind the skirt of the provincial gov't, besides if I didn't have to pay your employer so darn much , i then would give my guide much bigger tips than i do now as well and so would many others. IF you agree, then great , if you don't that's ok too , I and you have a right to our points , and so far it has been civil , great I don't mind healthy debate , but the debate has run it's course, i have tons of folks that agree with me , you have tons that agree with you , stalemate , now lets please get back to the topic this thread was intended to be on , I really made a mistake in my original response and honestly , did not intend to hijack this thread , but i did think it was relevant as well , I'm sorry "bone" that it took this turn.


M.

 

[bone-collector]

You didn't look too hard then check on page 2 and 3 of the hunting guide

anyone can shoot does in there own back yards why would I travel 16 hours to shoot a ANTLERLESS deer?

And btw , I have paid More taxes in BC between 1989 to 1998 than you prob made in those years.

and you know my financial state or anyone elses how? obviously money cant buy inteligence

What does being forced to take an outfitter have to do with conservation ?

it has everything to do with it, how many people have actualy shot a grizzly? how many grizzlies do we need wounded or how many sows do we need shot beacuse you were aloud to just free roam an area for a species you had no idea about, were as a outfitter should supply you with a guide thats done it just a couple times more than you!

I still own A home in oakbay, so i should still be considered a resident , I still pay taxes in BC ( property taxes still partially go to the province yes /no ?)

do you reside in that home? do you have a valid BC drivers licence? .. woopie you own a home here along with 100s of europeaners that come here every year for the summer, so now your more important than them? they own homes here, they pay taxes on them?

you are right however the debate is over, I have seen ZERO people come forward in deffence of your fight but rather poeple from across canada say its stupid, maybe you do make more money than me or anyone else on CGN, money dosnt make you a hunter or a conservationist for the future, maybe you do have a guide buddy thats willing to take you for the cost of tags, GREAT I am glad to see your #####ing about paying 1000 bucks for a 15000 dollar hunt, that looks good on your argument

 

[greywolf]

your point was that ONLY RESIDENTS could buy tags , i proved you wrong , antlerless or not , you can buy a tag if your a non res in sk ! , unless you make in excess of 300k a yr i think i'm a safe bet on that as well regarding the taxes thing, as for insulting my intelligence is that what you are stooping to ? I bet by your replies i have you beat on that as well, Thought you could civally debate this, was wrong . now it's done !

 

[Gatehouse]

I would like to know were buddy found the info that non residents get mulie tags in sask, searched there 2008 hunting regs and papers and it all says RESIDENT ONLY ?

You didn't look too hard then check on page 2 and 3 of the hunting guide, first off on page 2, it says they are no longer offering the EXCESS licenses for sale over the phone (i wasn't aware of that . BUT! on page 3 under chronic wasting disease mgmt prog it clearly (yeah right, in lite blue) states that for the first time this year they are offering outright, no draw no nothing tages to nonresident canadians for 20$, As for paying the tag fee in bc , i certainly still pay that, only thing I don't pay for is the outfitter, never said i didn't pay it, i happen to know the outfitter very well, Myself and a friend get invited up every year and every year i go , so if you want to go let me know, and you can bypass the draw , and get a tag and outfitter for the price of your tag fee now to address the rest, really i'm not trying to be rude here or anything , but do you guys really read the entire post? i have said many times I have no prob paying more than everyone else that doesn't live in bc, i have a prob with the obvious gouging by gov't and outfitters, IF tho , you are a top notch outfitter , fine is same as going to crappy tire to service your car for 50$ hr or going to the dealership for 100$ hr. So if you are say JIm Shockey, I would expect to pay much more, but if you are joe blow , who happened to get a guiding/outfitting license , then i should not have to pay Jim's rate, for that guy , got a prob with that ? I firmly believe if i must hire an outfitter, then let the price be reasonable , so IF you Win the draw or whatever , you have a fair chance of going , whether you make 20k a year or 200k a year. understanding the point yet ? And btw , I have paid More taxes in BC between 1989 to 1998 than you prob made in those years.
Yeah I can afford the top notch outfitter , but that is not the point and is another matter entirely. I am lucky enough to own everything I have outright, including my house, i owe nothing to anybody(in general) So Again I have no prob paying more , I have a prob with exhorbitant fees, charged to fellow canadians and treated the same as you biggest customers (us citizen) it is an insult to canada, pay more ? sure understood and agree'd with , but NOT 1030 for a tag, while you pay a 10th of that, and then FORCED to take an outfitter, What does being forced to take an outfitter have to do with conservation ? nothing, at least they can sort of justify the license as $ for conservation efforts , and I would agree and prob have tno prob with that if they knocked out the requirement for CANADIAN residents from having to have an outfitter, you have your place IF , I want one. Another point, I still own A home in oakbay, so i should still be considered a resident , I still pay taxes in BC ( property taxes still partially go to the province yes /no ?) Only Outfitters don't want the laws to change , because it would cut into their profits , same as any other business, the gov't doesn't belong in any business , want me to buy your "product" ? compete like everyone else, don't hide behind the skirt of the provincial gov't, besides if I didn't have to pay your employer so darn much , i then would give my guide much bigger tips than i do now as well and so would many others. IF you agree, then great , if you don't that's ok too , I and you have a right to our points , and so far it has been civil , great I don't mind healthy debate , but the debate has run it's course, i have tons of folks that agree with me , you have tons that agree with you , stalemate , now lets please get back to the topic this thread was intended to be on , I really made a mistake in my original response and honestly , did not intend to hijack this thread , but i did think it was relevant as well , I'm sorry "bone" that it took this turn.


M.

*YOU* have a problem with this, *YOU* have a problem with that...You still havent' answered "How does it benefit the residents of BC for you to hunt here for less ???"

You want a solution that benefits YOU, and improves NOTHING for the residents of BC, who own the land and wildlife.

Here is the solution. Move to BC, for 7 months per year, and regain your resident status, and you can hunt for the resident price.

There are positives and negatives to living everywhere. You gotta take the bad with the good...

 

[greywolf]

whoops , sorry obne collector sent the response to wrong one, how would it benefit bc ? Brings in plenty more tourist $ when folks figure they can come and not be gouged, and EVERY province benefits from that . Again you don't read either , you jumped on the bandwagon , I never said i wanted to hunt for less , I and p[lenty of others are complaining about being taken to the cleaners. Charge the license fees , fine , but don't force people to go to outfitters , or if you'd rather the outfitters , then do what the territories do charge less for license, and force the outfitter, and regulate the prices they can charge. whatever, I pay the license fee, every year, I just happen to have an outfitter friend that invites me, so i don't pay for that , i'm talking about equal opportunity for all to be able to "afford" to buy, get by draw , or whatever way to get a tag and hunt, in clorado it works fine , they have outfitter, they have "public lands " the outfitters, are on private property ( same as guaranteed territory) *I* as a non resident alien , can go there and I have the choice , i can buy a tag from wally world, and go it alone, OR I can hire an outfitter. my CHOICE. here that choice doesn't exist , btw colorado's ecomomy, particularly tourism/ hnuting/ fishing , is about quadruple than BC or AB . the outfitters do a booming business, but the little guy from say louisiana , can hunt there too , he can't afford the outfitter , but at least he isn't left out. Is that so wrong ? that's all I have been saying. This whole thing has been so twisted because you think i'm attacking your province /outfitters/ and guides , when in fact i'm not , I am attacking an inequitable and unjust system. We all agree, that we should get our kids and friends involved in our heritage of hunting, differnewnt species, you want to keep the kids interested, now is it fair to add the clause "but only if you have the $ , because we in our province don't want you unless you give up mega $ to me this is what you guys are saying , it would benefit the province to give people a choice as to who and what they want to hunt with , for crying out loud you cvcan even go the route of some province and say ok , species x is draw only, there are 500 tags available , 400 go to res , 50 to non re, 50 to aliens , (example only ) I have said nothing unreasonable. There are better ways. I have hunted in nwt, and nunavut , the license fees are ridiculously cheap, but i must have an outfitter, for biggame, fine , but guess what , there are decent outfitters there that only charge 1000 bucks for a bear hunt rather than 4000. get the idea ? Another scenario, is this , leave things as they are ,k ? now make up some diff hunt packages , say as an example myself and a guide, , my own tent and eq, I process my own game etc.... so now you can bring down the cost to just a guide and transport into the bush and out again , leave the choisest areas to the mega $ payers and give a lesser area, with a still good chance of a kill to the lesser $ payers . everyonbe is happy , and nonoe feels gouged. what's wrong with that ? I am on at least 10 other hunting boards, and that is also the most common complaint why they don't want to go to bc / Or ab and actually most say they'd love to go but can't afford the costs , and say they feel gouged. and then on the other hand the various gov't dept's complain about not enough tourist $ . It would at least not even look so bad if they applied the same rules to fishing and small game, or are they less important in the conservation scheme ? Also it would benefit the province in , (i would bet) cutting down on poachers , plenty of people resort to poaching because they want it sooo bad, but can't afford it , no excuse i agree, but if you made it affordable you'd help that area in the scheme of things , benefits are all over , just have to look for them . and heh i live in BC still 3 months of the year..... i was just told that it's 3 mnoth to be considered res ???? is that right ? could someone check please? it is like that in a few prov for sure.

i'm not complaining there are outfitters, or the like i'm comp[alining about $ to the average joe , so far no one has come up with any concrete proof that thew way things are benefits the prov, i 've only heard rhetoric, and opinions, I promised some folks to raise the issue, and i did, was hoping for some positve responses as to why things are as they are, all i got was responmses from folks that didn't read the posts , or read into them more than there was , an eassy thing to do on the 'net . I should nver have gotten to this point on this thread, but it did , and any furthur responses , please pm me, or msn me or whatever I really would like some real discussion on this, and not percieved justifications , but evidence as to how it benefits you to gouge folks. i'm not unreasonable and if a valid point i would agree with you , told bone collector the same thing in a pm , and he instead chose to attack my intelligence and make up 1/2 truths and slam me offering no concrete proof for his side of it.

 

[greywolf]

i'm not going to answer any more posts unless they are pm's this has gone to far and the topic should go back to what it was intended to go to , pm me if you wish to discuss it I personally have no hard feelings against anyone's opinions , hope you can be man enogh to do the same.

 

[Gatehouse]

whoops , sorry obne collector sent the response to wrong one, how would it benefit bc ? Brings in plenty more tourist $ when folks figure they can come and not be gouged, and EVERY province benefits from that . Again you don't read either , you jumped on the bandwagon , I never said i wanted to hunt for less , I and p[lenty of others are complaining about being taken to the cleaners. Charge the license fees , fine , but don't force people to go to outfitters , or if you'd rather the outfitters , then do what the territories do charge less for license, and force the outfitter, and regulate the prices they can charge. whatever, I pay the license fee, every year, I just happen to have an outfitter friend that invites me, so i don't pay for that , i'm talking about equal opportunity for all to be able to "afford" to buy, get by draw , or whatever way to get a tag and hunt, in clorado it works fine , they have outfitter, they have "public lands " the outfitters, are on private property ( same as guaranteed territory) *I* as a non resident alien , can go there and I have the choice , i can buy a tag from wally world, and go it alone, OR I can hire an outfitter. my CHOICE. here that choice doesn't exist , btw colorado's ecomomy, particularly tourism/ hnuting/ fishing , is about quadruple than BC or AB . the outfitters do a booming business, but the little guy from say louisiana , can hunt there too , he can't afford the outfitter , but at least he isn't left out. Is that so wrong ? that's all I have been saying. This whole thing has been so twisted because you think i'm attacking your province /outfitters/ and guides , when in fact i'm not , I am attacking an inequitable and unjust system. We all agree, that we should get our kids and friends involved in our heritage of hunting, differnewnt species, you want to keep the kids interested, now is it fair to add the clause "but only if you have the $ , because we in our province don't want you unless you give up mega $ to me this is what you guys are saying , it would benefit the province to give people a choice as to who and what they want to hunt with , for crying out loud you cvcan even go the route of some province and say ok , species x is draw only, there are 500 tags available , 400 go to res , 50 to non re, 50 to aliens , (example only ) I have said nothing unreasonable. There are better ways. I have hunted in nwt, and nunavut , the license fees are ridiculously cheap, but i must have an outfitter, for biggame, fine , but guess what , there are decent outfitters there that only charge 1000 bucks for a bear hunt rather than 4000. get the idea ? Another scenario, is this , leave things as they are ,k ? now make up some diff hunt packages , say as an example myself and a guide, , my own tent and eq, I process my own game etc.... so now you can bring down the cost to just a guide and transport into the bush and out again , leave the choisest areas to the mega $ payers and give a lesser area, with a still good chance of a kill to the lesser $ payers . everyonbe is happy , and nonoe feels gouged. what's wrong with that ? I am on at least 10 other hunting boards, and that is also the most common complaint why they don't want to go to bc / Or ab and actually most say they'd love to go but can't afford the costs , and say they feel gouged. and then on the other hand the various gov't dept's complain about not enough tourist $ . It would at least not even look so bad if they applied the same rules to fishing and small game, or are they less important in the conservation scheme ? Also it would benefit the province in , (i would bet) cutting down on poachers , plenty of people resort to poaching because they want it sooo bad, but can't afford it , no excuse i agree, but if you made it affordable you'd help that area in the scheme of things , benefits are all over , just have to look for them . and heh i live in BC still 3 months of the year..... i was just told that it's 3 mnoth to be considered res ???? is that right ? could someone check please? it is like that in a few prov for sure.

i'm not complaining there are outfitters, or the like i'm comp[alining about $ to the average joe , so far no one has come up with any concrete proof that thew way things are benefits the prov, i 've only heard rhetoric, and opinions, I promised some folks to raise the issue, and i did, was hoping for some positve responses as to why things are as they are, all i got was responmses from folks that didn't read the posts , or read into them more than there was , an eassy thing to do on the 'net . I should nver have gotten to this point on this thread, but it did , and any furthur responses , please pm me, or msn me or whatever I really would like some real discussion on this, and not percieved justifications , but evidence as to how it benefits you to gouge folks. i'm not unreasonable and if a valid point i would agree with you , told bone collector the same thing in a pm , and he instead chose to attack my intelligence and make up 1/2 truths and slam me offering no concrete proof for his side of it.

Have you actually tried to read and comprehend your posts?

 

[charvor]

I realize that BC is defending his profession here, but honestly, it boggles mmy mind that grown men can't have civilized discussions without name calling inferred or not.

Okay, going to start a new thread on this since this one is off topic.

 

[arancio]

I realize that BC is defending his profession here, but honestly, it boggles mmy mind that grown men can't have civilized discussions without name calling inferred or not.

The only thing differentiating men and boys is the cost of their toys.

 

[bone-collector]

how am I defending my profession here? because I have been a guide in the past?

 

[Dimitri]

Personally I'd rather pay the 1,000$ tag fee, pay the guides fees for a weeks of services, and get a nice Grizzly, then pay for a tag and randomly select a area of BC and hope for the best.

By then my 416 Canuck will be built, and would be taking that with me.

Dimitri

 

[blargon]

If you want to hunt BC for resident tag cost, become a BC resident....

I see no reason why a person from Province "X" should be entitled to hunt in Province "Y" for resident prices. Non residents don't contribute to the province, so why should they be given the same privileges?

I'd love to come out there and hunt some bear/moose, and I don't mind the non-res fees, its the outfitter costs that are the road-block. I understand the benefits of having a guide for sure, especially when I don't know didly about grizz hunts, but are the Outfitters regulated or can they charge whatever they want? $5-6000 I could swing, but $10-20,000 is a little much.

 

[bone-collector]

outfitters set there own prices, this is due to no 2 outfitters are the same, especialy on grizzly tags, its become beleif due to some peoples thoughts there unlimited grizzly tags in BC, NOT TRUE not many outfitters on the whole scale even get to hunt grizzly, those that do have a set number of tags for a set time frame, say I was a outfitter that could hunt grizzly, I may have 4 grizzly tags for a 4 year period meaning if I sell all 4 tags in the first year I have 3 more years before I get more.

as is the grizzly hunt for local residents, its on a LEH system meaning you need to win the lottery (LEH) in order to even hunt grizzly in BC

the odds of getting a LEH depend on number of tags for an area and number of hunters that would like to hunt that area

moose are similar to a outfitter exept there are generaly alot more tags and renewed more often

so in the end YES they set there own prices, usualy depending on quality and quantity of animals in there area

 

[blargon]

Well, I doubt I'd ever do the grizz anyway. But I'd like to do an Elk/Mule deer combo at some point.

 

[bone-collector]

mule deer can be done on the hunter host permit in most of BC, Elk I do not know about

 

[Gatehouse]

Like anything else that is in high demand, grizzly and sheep hunts cost quite a bit of money. And there are often people booked a year or two in advance for some of these hunts.

A guy can still hunt in BC for a reasonable price, as long as he doesn't want to fly in, horse back/ high dollar animals...

A Canadian can use the hunter host program, or get a reasonably priced moose/deer/black bear combo. Just about any outfitter will throw in black bears and wolves.

None of it is cheap, but it's possible. Depending on a persons priorities they could hunt the grizz or sheep, too.

Outiftters and residents have a total allowable harvest to share with these species, outfitters have quotas they are allowed to harvest, and no more. It's not surprising they want to maximize thier return.

 

[muledeercrazy]

I have seen several hunting videos where bears i would consider small were called "shooters" by the guides and harvested very quickly. It seems those are big bears to americans and people living in areas not heavily populated with black or grizzly bears..The same type of people are happy with fish that an experienced angler might release without a second thought..
I know id like to go to any province or territory and hunt for a resonable price... Thousands of dollars is to much for the average guy