Rate Remington .308 Winchester Brass.
- Thread starter wcmd
- Start date
I've spent some time learning how to reload using the m14 platform, and since then have had a chance to test winchester, remington and federal brass.
Before I continue, I want to make this clear, everything I have read on the subject dictates to me that you fire 4 times through your m14 and then crush the brass and never look back. This is to prevent any head seperations and so forth during actual firings. There are tonnes of people out there who shoot their brass a heck of a lot more times then I do, thus your milage may very. I crush my brass at 4 times, some say they get 6, 8 or more firings. This may be all and well, but I wont be firing beside them on the line!
First and foremost, I find winchester brass to be the best (short of laupa and other more expensive brass). The problem is, winchester is not making anymore brass available to handloaders until their military contracts are fullfilled (i've read this on this site, thus i cannot confirm it's 100 percent reliable, but i can no longer find winchester brass myself)
Secondly, I've since sourced remington brass and for the most part, I do not see much difference between it and winchester. During f/l resizing, I seem to notice the brass is a bit more maluable then winchester (thus weaker in my opinion). I also notice the case gets quite a bit more dings after firing presumably from the extraction process as well as landing on concreate/gravel. This furthers my belief their brass is not as hard as winchester. Otherwise, I find remington brass to be an acceptable substitute for winchester for the m14. The shoulders and necks seem to measure out quite good and the neck seems very concentric (circular and in line .. was that the right word?) with the case.
Next, federal brass. Crap .. read: I am not impressed.
I see federal brass collect more dings faster then remington, I have also noted that my extractor; upon pulling the case out of the chamber and flinging it across the range, leaves sections of the rim 'bent' by the extractors sheer force. Sadly, I also see the neck to sometimes not be quite in line with the rest of the case. I have only tested one lot of 50 rounds, thus this may be just a 'one off' bag of crap. But, after this experience, I will gladly pay a few bucks more for remington.
And last and not least, if anyone has any winchestor .308 brass for sale, PM ME PLEASE
Before I continue, I want to make this clear, everything I have read on the subject dictates to me that you fire 4 times through your m14 and then crush the brass and never look back. This is to prevent any head seperations and so forth during actual firings. There are tonnes of people out there who shoot their brass a heck of a lot more times then I do, thus your milage may very. I crush my brass at 4 times, some say they get 6, 8 or more firings. This may be all and well, but I wont be firing beside them on the line!
First and foremost, I find winchester brass to be the best (short of laupa and other more expensive brass). The problem is, winchester is not making anymore brass available to handloaders until their military contracts are fullfilled (i've read this on this site, thus i cannot confirm it's 100 percent reliable, but i can no longer find winchester brass myself)
Secondly, I've since sourced remington brass and for the most part, I do not see much difference between it and winchester. During f/l resizing, I seem to notice the brass is a bit more maluable then winchester (thus weaker in my opinion). I also notice the case gets quite a bit more dings after firing presumably from the extraction process as well as landing on concreate/gravel. This furthers my belief their brass is not as hard as winchester. Otherwise, I find remington brass to be an acceptable substitute for winchester for the m14. The shoulders and necks seem to measure out quite good and the neck seems very concentric (circular and in line .. was that the right word?) with the case.
Next, federal brass. Crap .. read: I am not impressed.
I see federal brass collect more dings faster then remington, I have also noted that my extractor; upon pulling the case out of the chamber and flinging it across the range, leaves sections of the rim 'bent' by the extractors sheer force. Sadly, I also see the neck to sometimes not be quite in line with the rest of the case. I have only tested one lot of 50 rounds, thus this may be just a 'one off' bag of crap. But, after this experience, I will gladly pay a few bucks more for remington.And last and not least, if anyone has any winchestor .308 brass for sale, PM ME PLEASE
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
As to standard brass, I'll take Winchester over Remington every time.
Rem brass is OK, not quite as good as win(concentricity etc). I would think it'll be ok for your m14, if you wanted the best then go to premium stuff. Fed is a step down, you could use it if free and abundant, cull all the crummy cases(lots)and use a larger primer such as a CCI(they have large primer pockets) You don't want to pay much for them, as you've already seen.
P.S. I used to reload or my m1 garand. Isn't it unbeleivable what these actions do to the rims of the cases(esp Fed). Between that and chasing brass, I was insired to buy bolt action rifles! What kind of accuracy are you getting?
P.S. I used to reload or my m1 garand. Isn't it unbeleivable what these actions do to the rims of the cases(esp Fed). Between that and chasing brass, I was insired to buy bolt action rifles! What kind of accuracy are you getting?
Last edited:
BattleRife
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- of No Fixed Address
Did you read this on the internet, or somewhere with some credibility?
I have a trial batch of Winchester ammo I am shooting now, after each loading, I pull one case from the batch and destructively test it. I measure hardness with a Vickers HV0.5 method, and section the case to examine it for cracking and will eventually look at the microstructure to evaluate levels of cold work. At four firings, when you would have wasted them, they were still perfect. After six firings, hardness is still reasonable, none have split due to cold work. One case developed a burn hole in the neck after the sixth firing, and the case I have sectioned at the sixth firing has shown a slight necking ring above the head. The others have not shown any indication of this. The thing that makes me shake my head the most about your reasoning that the purpose is to avoid a head separation. So what if you do? You are more likely to seriously injure yourself by slicing open your thumb loading magazines than you are by a head separation.
In short, throwing away brass after x firings when the case shows no signs of distress is like setting money on fire just to watch it burn.
To answer the original question, FC cases were my workhorses this summer for my M14. After and estimated 3-5 loadings (I don't sort them very closely), I have lost maybe 5% of them due to splitting necks. None have been rejected for the loose primer pocket issue that is so infamous on the errornet. The only Winchester I have shot are the 20 cases I am putting through the above-mentioned durability study, they are sitting waiting to be loaded for the eighth time, and I am impressed with the durability. I have some R-P cases I use for my A-Bolt, I have been shooting them for years, and they seem to require annealing after 3-4 firings or they will split like crazy. I will know more next year, but for now Winchester brass has impressed me the most.
I'm surprised fellows. I find Winchester brass hardens much more quickly than Remington. I got rid of almost all of my Winchester brass because of it. To compare it to Lapua is a slam against Lapua in my opinion.
Now, I really miss the old Dominion and IVI brass pre 1985, the Gevelot and Norma brass are great as well, if you can find it.
Bearhunter
Now, I really miss the old Dominion and IVI brass pre 1985, the Gevelot and Norma brass are great as well, if you can find it.
Bearhunter
Depending on caliber, the nod between Rem and Win can go either way. I recently used some Win brass in 338 Win Mag that was at least 0.040" short from base to shoulder, which is going to probably cause some sepration on firing (haven't used it yet, and I have "modified" it a tad to try and prevent this. Another thing about reloaders, we'll spend hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours to save pennies per brass. It's a sickness, pity us, lol.) FWIW. MY standard 308 brass I use in great quantities is IMI, IVI, and Fed. Just because I lucked into good deals on large amounts of each. - dan
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
In a reloaders survey done admittedly some years ago, on another site {US}, Remington brass was bottom of the heap amongst a large number of reloaders. Many said it wasn't worth the trouble to bend over and pick it up.
In an M14, I'd take commercial Remington over commercial Winchester any day of the week. It holds up better, in my experience. The M14 is a brass eating monster.
In a boltgun: Winchester over Remington (but neither in reality since I'd be using Lapua or Hornady).
In a boltgun: Winchester over Remington (but neither in reality since I'd be using Lapua or Hornady).
BattleRife
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- of No Fixed Address
Wow, not my experience at all. My Norinco places the brass in concise piles about 1.5m forward and to the right of the gun. A small percentage of cases have a slight dent on the body which has caused me no problems at all. The only mouth dents I get is if I step on them when I go to pick them up. Only my 20" barreled ARs are more polite with brass.
