Raven or CZ Bren 2

zhangami

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I've been looking into 556 semi-auto rifles, both Raven and Bren 2 are very nice and it's really hard to choose. Can someone give me some advice or comparison and help me to choose?

Thank you.
 
You'll be able to wring better accuracy from the Raven as a general rule, and especially if you customize it with a plethora of aftermarket made for the AR (such as a match AR barrel).
You'll have the ability to expand into larger or pistol calibers too with the conversions (although I believe Lockhart has priced the conversions outside the realm of practicality for cost).

You can get an out of the box non-restricted Raven for less than the similarly converted CZ as well.

If any of that matters to you.
 
Bren 2. Once PP allows our AR15s to be used and bought/sold again, the Lockhart Raven is going to die a quick market death. Nobody will be buying a $3K pseudo-AR when the real deal is available for less than half that price. The Raven will become redundant in the Canadian market. It is a niche firearm as it is. The Bren 2 will always remain a current NATO-issue, state-of-the-art military and utility sporting firearm on the Canadian market, worth the asking price. The Raven won't be worth beans once the AR15s are back in action...
 
Bren 2. Once PP allows our AR15s to be used and bought/sold again, the Lockhart Raven is going to die a quick market death. Nobody will be buying a $3K pseudo-AR when the real deal is available for less than half that price. The Raven will become redundant in the Canadian market. It is a niche firearm as it is. The Bren 2 will always remain a current NATO-issue, state-of-the-art military and utility sporting firearm on the Canadian market, worth the asking price. The Raven won't be worth beans once the AR15s are back in action...



Exactly what I’m waiting for….. I bought a Templar instead and now have my budget set for the legit stuff at half the price.
 
Bren 2. Once PP allows our AR15s to be used and bought/sold again, the Lockhart Raven is going to die a quick market death. Nobody will be buying a $3K pseudo-AR when the real deal is available for less than half that price. The Raven will become redundant in the Canadian market. It is a niche firearm as it is. The Bren 2 will always remain a current NATO-issue, state-of-the-art military and utility sporting firearm on the Canadian market, worth the asking price. The Raven won't be worth beans once the AR15s are back in action...

While I 100% agree with your Raven assessment I would not call Bren 2 state-of-the-art. With all existing drawbacks / issues and now with new issue of gas blocks failing... Far away from state of the art. Design-wise even commercial JAKL is better.

OP, among Raven and Bren, pick X95, which also has its own quirks, but is cheaper than Bren and more reliable than Raven and wait out for AR re-classification.
 
Unless Pierre is going to make the AR-15 non-restricted, there will always be a market for a non-restricted AR-15 style rifle. Maybe their sales will reduce a bit but I doubt they would go out of business.
 
I'd be surprised and delighted if the Conservatives walked back the current / recent OICs...but walking back previously restricted ARs to non-restricted? We can only dream I'm afraid.
 
What is your primary purpose? Budget?

If you desire a gun for matches or long range accuracy in a semi auto platform, build a Raven with upgraded barrel (and trigger etc - you decide how far you want Gucci it).

If non restricted is important, go with a raven, or save up for an APC223.

If you’re willing to go restricted, an 11” or 14” Bren 2 is awesome.
 
I'm waiting for the ATRS MS to be taken off the list to build a non restricted AR15 as the scalpers are selling the upper lower 3 to 4 times its worth, they were going for 999$ and the cheapest I've seen is over 3k. In the meantime, if I had the means, I would definitively go for the Bren 2 or B&T APC 223, best and most reliable 5.56 platform available in Canada but comes with a steep price.
 
While I 100% agree with your Raven assessment I would not call Bren 2 state-of-the-art. With all existing drawbacks / issues and now with new issue of gas blocks failing... Far away from state of the art. Design-wise even commercial JAKL is better.

OP, among Raven and Bren, pick X95, which also has its own quirks, but is cheaper than Bren and more reliable than Raven and wait out for AR re-classification.

The CZ Bren 2 has become the de-facto "new NATO rifle" for several former Eastern Bloc nations. The Czech Republic, Hungary, Ukraine and Poland (Border Guards) all employ the Bren 2, as do customers as far-flung as Indonesia, Mexico and France (GIGN). A seriously flawed firearm does not repeatedly meet stringent testing requirements for national procurement. It simply does not succeed in those tests. So to imply that the Bren 2 is somehow inferior with your unspecified "drawbacks / issues" and failing Gas Blocks runs directly counter to common sense and intuition.

I don't have a dog in this difference of opinion, as I am an equal opportunity owner of everything that repeatedly goes "bang" that I can lay my grubby mitts upon. Sure, I have a CZ Bren 2, and I believe that it is an excellent service/utility rifle in its 14" configuration. But the CZ Bren 2 is hardly the hill that I am prepared to die upon. If you can prove to me that the design is truly flawed, with multiple recorded incidents of parts failure, then I will happily admit that you were right and I am wrong. But until you provide that documented proof? I side with the CZ Bren 2 being the fine service rifle that countless Ukrainian soldiers have attested to in frontline video footage of nasty, dirty trench warfare in the Donbass and environs.

I believe that your personal bias towards certain firearms clouds your judgement of others. But that's just me thinking aloud... Perhaps you are correct in your negative assessment of the CZ Bren 2. But right now, you are swimming against the current of common sense IMHO....
 
I’ve spent a fair bit of time behind all three Of the aforementioned Raven, Bren 2, and X95, all in NR format.

No one can say for you because we are all different.

For me I’d definitely take the Bren2 into my stable first if buying one. It feels like an old friend in my hands. It is also the most expensive of the three. It was as accurate as the Raven and both Bren and Raven handily out shot the X95 if tight groups are your thing.

The Raven was the lightest and had a timney trigger in it. Accuracy was very good. It had one issue of the bolt hanging up on an empty mag after firing the last round. Perhaps it didn’t like pmags. It was a bit frustrating trying to remove the empty mag. If it were a service rifle and did that with all mags that’s a huge issue.

X95 is very compact, and considerably different. I’m not a bull pup guy but I can say it ate everything just like the Bren and never had a hiccup. Accuracy was noticeably lower.

You need to decide on the economics and use. For a fun plinker Raven Blem.

Buy once cry once Bren2

Kicking down doors and taking names X95
 
I'm waiting for the ATRS MS to be taken off the list to build a non restricted AR15

Someone posted up a bare receiver set yesterday for only $2500. Considering what people are asking for mediocre builds with Faxon barrels on the EE that's vastly better value.
I think we will see thousands of AR owners dumping their ARs to move to NRs if the OIC is overturned.
 
The CZ Bren 2 has become the de-facto "new NATO rifle" for several former Eastern Bloc nations. The Czech Republic, Hungary, Ukraine and Poland (Border Guards) all employ the Bren 2, as do customers as far-flung as Indonesia, Mexico and France (GIGN). A seriously flawed firearm does not repeatedly meet stringent testing requirements for national procurement. It simply does not succeed in those tests. So to imply that the Bren 2 is somehow inferior with your unspecified "drawbacks / issues" and failing Gas Blocks runs directly counter to common sense and intuition.

I don't have a dog in this difference of opinion, as I am an equal opportunity owner of everything that repeatedly goes "bang" that I can lay my grubby mitts upon. Sure, I have a CZ Bren 2, and I believe that it is an excellent service/utility rifle in its 14" configuration. But the CZ Bren 2 is hardly the hill that I am prepared to die upon. If you can prove to me that the design is truly flawed, with multiple recorded incidents of parts failure, then I will happily admit that you were right and I am wrong. But until you provide that documented proof? I side with the CZ Bren 2 being the fine service rifle that countless Ukrainian soldiers have attested to in frontline video footage of nasty, dirty trench warfare in the Donbass and environs.

I believe that your personal bias towards certain firearms clouds your judgement of others. But that's just me thinking aloud... Perhaps you are correct in your negative assessment of the CZ Bren 2. But right now, you are swimming against the current of common sense IMHO....

But I already posted all about these issues and it was based on Ukrainian experience (I hope you trust that I still have many connections with Ukraine), including reference to video. Were you not part of this discussion? Maybe I'll find the time to put together all my notes on issues with Bren 2 in Ukraine.
Also - believe you me, in the history of armies there were many cases were proper testing was not done, and Ukraine has close to zero experience in small arms testing. I really hope this contract with CZ won't realize.
 
I’d take a Raven over a Bren2 strictly because it’s NR out of the box, living away from the city I’m really not interested in a restricted long gun. I want to be able to grab it and go shoot in the bush and not be constrained to just the range, I have to deal with that for handguns which is what it is. I’ll buy a cheaper AR15 if they green light them down the line, otherwise I’d pay the money for the NR rifle hands down. Might be a different outlook if I still lived in the city and couldn’t step out my front door and shoot but I can do just that, or hop in the truck or quad and be on crown land that’s safe to shoot on in minutes.
 
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