Rc K-98 Shoots High

K98ACTION

K98ACTION

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ALL, my RC mauser nice looking and all, but at 100m it is shooting way high. I'd don't even want to tell you because I can't believe it myself. Aim point is the bottom of a NFA standard 200m orange crosshairs, (I know should be using 100m tgts, but I need the bigger sight pic) using good sight picture, filling the rear sight vee with the tip of front blade, breathing good, etc etc, my impacts are consistainly hitting the tgt approx 12 to 15 inches high slightly to the left.

I can adjust for windage easily, but elevation? Rear sight is set at 100m lowest poss. The physics behind the front blade suggest I would need a taller blade in order to bring the barrel aim point lower? But looking at the blade it does not appear to be worn down? So why would I have to replace it with a taller blade, am I just missing something here?

Any thoughts on how to remidy:cool:
 
Do the rear sight markings start at !00 ? Do you know if that is the original sight blade ? Are you shooting ammo that the rifle would have used as standard,, same bullet weight @ same velocity ?

Load to the sights if that gives satisfactory accuracy or change the sight blade. I used to make them myself to suit the ammo once I had the ammo perfected. Nowadays I put a telescopic sight on everything.
 
Yeah, very common for K98's to shoot high. There are a few possible solutions. First is what kind of ammo you are using? K98's were zeroed using 196gr bullets so if you are using different weighted ammo (especially lighter ammo), it will effect your POA.

A taller front sight blade is one possible solution. They are available from a bunch of US retailers or maybe someone on the EE has one.

The other solution is to change your target view and try a modified six o' clock hold. Experiment with bringing the sight blade down further into the V of the rear sight. You may end up having just the tip of the blade visible in the V. Once you find the 'sweet spot', you can practice and get used to that seeing that for an accurate zero. Lots of guys use this type of hold when shooting K98's.
 
K98ACTION said:
The physics behind the front blade suggest I would need a taller blade in order to bring the barrel aim point lower? But looking at the blade it does not appear to be worn down? So why would I have to replace it with a taller blade, am I just missing something here?
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FORS = Front opposite, Rear same........ :)

If your grouping is high, then yes, you need to raise the height of the front sight, or lower the rear sight.

I don't know what else it can be, other then your sighting picture, or perhaps an ammunition difference (grain of ammo is? ... 198gr etc? ... commercial or handloads?), based upon the rifle being set-up and zeroed with something completely different than German 8mm military spec.

Extract from German K98k Manual
sightpic1.jpg


sightpic3.jpg


sightpic2.jpg


No, I don't speak German .... :D :D

Regards,
Badger

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Milsurp Knowledge Library (Click HERE)
 
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For starters, K98k's are zeros using 196gr spitzer ammunition with a 6 o'clock hold. holding with a center of mass sight picture will easily put you 6"-10" high at 100m. Most commercial ammo is 180gr, which will account for the rest of the difference in POI.

You may also wish to try lowering you front sight to the bottom of the rear sight's "V" when aiming. See if that helps.
 
It says the diagram on the left is correct, the rest are wrong ( obviously)

Bei means at. 30 CM high at 100 which equals 11 3/4" approximately. His rifle is shooting near enough as it is meant to. POI 400 mtrs
 
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Dark Alley Dan said:
Aim for the ####. Should lob 'em in there somwhere center of mass.

Happy to help,

Dan
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Ok, I did not know that the K-98's were zeroed using the 6 hold! I will give it a try tomm at the range. I was using igman 198's so bullet weight should be good. That seems weird though because if I was engaging a target at 300m I wouldn't even have to adjust the rear sight slide to 300. I could keep it at 100m and just fill the v in with the blade and I should be able to hit c of m? Unless the idea is to always maintain a 6 hold in sight pic and set rear sight accordingly.

Dark alley Dan, I think aiming for the #### is against the Geneva Convention! I could be wrong here.:rolleyes:
 
K98ACTION said:
Ok, I did not know that the K-98's were zeroed using the 6 hold! I will give it a try tomm at the range. I was using igman 198's so bullet weight should be good. That seems weird though because if I was engaging a target at 300m I wouldn't even have to adjust the rear sight slide to 300. I could keep it at 100m and just fill the v in with the blade and I should be able to hit c of m? Unless the idea is to always maintain a 6 hold in sight pic and set rear sight accordingly.

Dark alley Dan, I think aiming for the #### is against the Geneva Convention! I could be wrong here.:rolleyes:
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They are not zeroed using the 6 hold. At 300 metres you would still be 30cm high, exactly the same as at 100 It's zeroed at 400 metres or 436 yards.

The trajectory figures for shots at under 400 metres are on the list that Badger Dog posted for you, take a look.
 
Spencer, just to clarify are you saying they were zeroed at 400 meters with the rear sight scale set to lowest setting i.e. 100m or set to 400m? Then using the left image of those different sight pics provided by Badger? That pic shows what I call a normal and correct way to fill the rear v with the top of the front blade.

Not a 6 hold, (filling the v with a portion of the blade).

If this is correct, then what is the purpose of the sliding rear sight scale? If I wanted to hit a target in center at 400, then I should simply be able to slide the rear sight forward to the 400m position, aim by filling the v properly with the front blade, And I mean just like the left pic shows on Badgers diagrams having the top of the front blade level with the top of the rear v. When the rear sight is set at 400m it raises the rear sight. So to acheive a proper sight picture you will actually raise the barrel of your rifle in order to fill the v. This is how we compensate for the farther distance and bullet trajectory drop for a target that is 400m out.

Now my point is, if I am using that same sight picture while shooting at a target at 100m with the rear sight set at 100m or the lowest setting on the k-98, and my impacts are 12 to 18 inches high to my POA, then when shooting at 200, 300, and 400 using same sight pic and keeping sight selector at 100m the bullet tragectory will drop and eventually hit zero somewhere how ever far the bullet needs to go to drop 12 to 18 inches. If that magic distance is 400m then fine, but something is not correct here.

Again. What then would be the purpose of the rear sight 100m elevation increments? Because if I set the rear sight to 400m and shoot at 400m my error offset that I experienced at 100m with sight set at 100m would still be there and I would still be shooting high.

Am I not correct in saying if I zero at 100m (More likely than 400) with sight set at 100m, using proper ammo and as discussed sight pic and hit 100m target in center or where I am aiming, then rifle is zeroed. Now if I want to engage a target at 200, 300 or 400, all I do is select setting, barrel is raised to compensate and it should be zero.

s**t this is not that difficult, but I'm getting crazy about this. I mean I know how to and have used different techniques to adjust an out of wack sight, i.e. use a 6 hold etc. But I don't think that kind of guess work is what was taught or how these rifles were ment to be aimed. BUT I COULD BE OUT IN LEFT FIELD. And if it works I will use it.
 
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K98ACTION said:
Spencer, just to clarify are you saying they were zeroed at 400 meters with the rear sight scale set to lowest setting i.e. 100m or set to 400m? Then using the left image of those different sight pics provided by Badger? That pic shows what I call a normal and correct way to fill the rear v with the top of the front blade.

Not a 6 hold, (filling the v with a portion of the blade).
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According to the manual, from my understanding (I could be wrong ) the sights were set starting at 400, that's why the POI's are given for ranges under 400, from your description your rifle would seem to confirm this.

As far a 6 hold is concerned I had asumed you were talking about aiming at six o'clock rather than centre of bull. Anything else then I don't know what you are doing.

If your sight elevation does start at 100 then you have a sight blade that is too low or the wrong rear sight, simply install another front blade that will give you a POI at 100. make a tall one and file it down until the POI is spot on, problem solved and no need to worry about it any more. :)
 
6 o'clock hold is simply positioning the front sight at the bottom of the target, think of a pumpkin on a fence post type sight picture. This allows an unobstrcted view of the target and more precise aiming. POI should of course be the center of the target.
 
If it's an RC, there is absloutely NO guarantee it's properly sighted in. It's likely a random front sight post. Hell, even refurbed Mosins rarely shoot to POA without some adjustment.
 
6 oclock hold...400 meters...196 grain ammo? WTH? My BRNO Mauser K98 has graduated sights starting at 100 meters and up. You aim with the top of the front sight flush with the top of the rear sight and shoot. Your post in front is too low PERIOD! A foot to a foot and a half is a heck of a lot!!!!

All this adadptive use of your present sight system will only make you take up bad habits that will haunt you should you ever shoot any other kind of rifle. Get a taller front post or try adding some height to the present post.

Just for fun, try some brand name hunting ammo in 170gr. and see if this repeats itself just so you can cross this element off the list. I did have some cooky ammo in my Polish M44 7.62x54R that required my sights to be used with the 400 yard rear sight to shoot at 100 yards.
 
The easiest, non destructive way is to take and cut small tooth pick pieces and glue(white glue) them on to the front sight for the additional height required, sanding some if required. This way you can do it by trial and error and then make or buy the correct front sight you need.
Don't file your original sight down.
 
Coyote Ugly said:
The easiest, non destructive way is to take and cut small tooth pick pieces and glue(white glue) them on to the front sight for the additional height required, sanding some if required. This way you can do it by trial and error and then make or buy the correct front sight you need.
Don't file your original sight down.
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After all these years .. I learned something new today. Thanks :D :rockOn:
 
High Shootin

Woodsman said:
6 oclock hold...400 meters...196 grain ammo? WTH? My BRNO Mauser K98 has graduated sights starting at 100 meters and up. You aim with the top of the front sight flush with the top of the rear sight and shoot. Your post in front is too low PERIOD! A foot to a foot and a half is a heck of a lot!!!!

All this adadptive use of your present sight system will only make you take up bad habits that will haunt you should you ever shoot any other kind of rifle. Get a taller front post or try adding some height to the present post.

Just for fun, try some brand name hunting ammo in 170gr. and see if this repeats itself just so you can cross this element off the list. I did have some cooky ammo in my Polish M44 7.62x54R that required my sights to be used with the 400 yard rear sight to shoot at 100 yards.
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Woodsman, your handle is a sign of respect. I fully agree with you. Because my father ( A Woodsman in his day) would s**t his pants if anyone he new would resort to shooting at game while using anything but a correctly aimed rifle. Once you begin to try and hit your target with anything but a correct sight picture you are just introducing WAY too much guess work. Badger posted some actual German pics on this thread that clearly show the correct position of your sight pic. Now guys I realize that I probably can achieve good hits by playing around with my sight pic, but I am an Instrumentation Tech by trade and accuracy is instilled into my brain. Therefore unfortunatly my front sight is too low. Now I will try the tooth pick method to determine how much more height I require and then replace the blade. This sucks, but it's the correct way to fix the problem.

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP AND INPUT.
 
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