RCAF using M1 Garand
- Thread starter twincamharley
- Start date
During WWII the 6th Canadian infantry division was trained first on commonwealth weapons (smle, bren, piat, etc.) then was switched to usgi issue (garand, bar, bazooka, etc.) in preparation for the invasion of japan. The rationale was to ease supply of weapons and supplies by standardization for all troops in the invasion. It was a precursor to the NATO standardization we see today. My father trained on the commonwealth set and was switched to the usgi set and in the process of retraining when the war ended and they set the weapons aside to await demobbing.
TCH, based on the tail flash on the Sabre the pic was taken at 4 Wing, Baden Sollingen, probably around '54-'55. The RCAF started camo'ing the airplanes shortly thereafter. The tail flash (and matching flash around the nose) colour denoted which fighter wing the aircraft was based at, 1 - red, 2 - yellow, 3 - blue, 4 - white (all bordered with black edge stripes). Individual squadron badge/art was painted on each side of the fuselage, just aft of the gun port panel.
An era when the RCAF was untouchable. Our Sabres, with the Canadian Orenda engines, outperformed everything else NATO had until the century series supersonic stuff started arriving. Tom Stafford, NASA astronaut, even mentioned in his biography how great the Canadian Sabres were!
My old man flew Sabres at 1 Wing, Marville, France, '60-62.
An era when the RCAF was untouchable. Our Sabres, with the Canadian Orenda engines, outperformed everything else NATO had until the century series supersonic stuff started arriving. Tom Stafford, NASA astronaut, even mentioned in his biography how great the Canadian Sabres were!
My old man flew Sabres at 1 Wing, Marville, France, '60-62.
Last edited:
- Location
- Beaverlodge, Alberta
They could have mix and matched, best of both worlds. Thinking Garand, Bren, Bazooka, 4T, Thompson? Would it have changed tactics at all to have the different weapons?
Could be. Could also be from the Garands that were procured for the Cdn Army Pacific Force in WW2. I used to shoot with an ex-RCAF service policeman in the late 1970s who told me that he was issued with both BARs and M1 Garands while employed on airbase defence duties in Europe in the 1950s.
devil ears
Member
- Location
- Calgary, AB
How about Canadian Army 1953? Or would this be familiarization training for Korea?
Defending the Dominion, Annex M, David W. Edgecombe indicate Depot stocks of the M1 Garand was on 01 July 1949 the Canadian Forces had in stock 7,962 rifles. 3,000 were later sold to Chile, fate of remainder unknown. I also have in the past talked to former Air Police posted on RCAF Bases in France who were issued the M1 Garand. According to the gentleman I talked too, applicable ammunition at that time was unavailable.
The official Cdn Army service rifle was the No4 Lee-Enfield until the FN was adopted in the late 1950s. The Cdn Army Pacific Force was issued with and trained on standard US small arms, incl the M1 Garand, in the mid-1945 period. The RCAF did use Garands on airbase defence duties in Europe in the 1950s. Some M1 Garands as well as other US small arms were used unofficially in Korea until the Korean war ended in mid-1953. A friend of mine who trained at 202 Wksp in Montreal in the late 1950s stated that there were an stocks of Garand spares held in stock in the late 1950s and that some of these spares were subsequently sold to Denmark.
I have an original copy of TM9-1275, the US Army Ordnance manual for the Garand, dated June 1947 which came out of the 27 COD (Central Ordance Depot) Tech Library. 27 COD operated in London, ON until closed in the 1970-71 period. The manual shows 2 amendments entered by 27 COD personnel in 1949 and 1959.
I have an original copy of TM9-1275, the US Army Ordnance manual for the Garand, dated June 1947 which came out of the 27 COD (Central Ordance Depot) Tech Library. 27 COD operated in London, ON until closed in the 1970-71 period. The manual shows 2 amendments entered by 27 COD personnel in 1949 and 1959.
Last edited:
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
At home I have a book written about Canadian Army sniper rifles that were officially issued. It was stated in there, that M1 rifles with IR-NVG were kept for night actions during the Korean War. Yes, it specifically said M1 rifles. I wonder if this was a typing mistake? Did the author mean to say M1-M2 carbines? Or was it otherwise?
I don't really know.
The primary US Army sniper rifle in use in Korea was the M1C Garand which was fitted with one of a M81, M82 or Lyman Alaskan scope. The M1D sniper variant may have seen some use towards the end. All of these had straight optical scopes, no IR stuff. The M3 Carbine was fitted with an IR scope and did see some use in Korea by the US Army. It was kind of a poor lashup for sniping use given the limited accuracy and range of the M1 Carbine round. Some of these could have made their way into Cdn hands in an "unofficial" way, but the standard Cdn Army snipers rifle in Korea was the No4Mk1 (T) Lee-Enfield.
fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I have seen one pic of a Cdn soldier in Korea (period picture) which depicts him fraternizing with a Korean boy. The soldier has a No4Mk1(T) L E rifle with a custom buttstock attached. From what I recall it had a higher comb and nice pistol grip, such as you would see on a good quality target rifle.
Wondering what is with the thick soles on the soldier's boots - is he wearing his parade boots, or was he wearing some sort of hobnailed self soled combat boots? I don't know very much about Korean War era/ post Korean War era Cdn combat uniforms other than to assume it was a mixture of 1937 pattern clothing / webgear and later developments.
Wondering what is with the thick soles on the soldier's boots - is he wearing his parade boots, or was he wearing some sort of hobnailed self soled combat boots? I don't know very much about Korean War era/ post Korean War era Cdn combat uniforms other than to assume it was a mixture of 1937 pattern clothing / webgear and later developments.
Last edited:
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I have seen one pic of a Cdn soldier in Korea (period picture) which depicts him fraternizing with a Korean boy. The soldier has a No4Mk1(T) L E rifle with a custom buttstock attached. From what I recall it had a higher comb and nice pistol grip, such as you would see on a good quality target rifle.
Wondering what is with the thick soles on the soldier's boots - is he wearing his parade boots, or was he wearing some sort of hobnailed self soled combat boots? I don't know very much about Korean War era/ post Korean War era Cdn combat uniforms other than to assume it was a mixture of 1937 pattern clothing / webgear and later developments.
The high comb butt was a post WWII variation that the Canadian Army tried as a replacement for the two-piece butt and comb combination of the wartime conversions. They all had the red rubber Jostams brand butt plate. The EAL rifle also used a Jostams. There was a very low production sniper scope, the C No.67, made in Canada that was distinctive from the REL Mk.32 scopes, in that the tube was larger and the ocular bell longer.
The book Without Warning by Clive Law, reports the Canadian Army in Korea received 2 per battalion Garand rifles with Infra-Red scopes, and were still held as late as 1955. There is very little clear information available. The scale of issue for No.4(T) rifles was 8 per battalion. The first Canadian brigade (27th Inf Bde) in Germany in 1951 was issued M1D sniper rifles as replacements for No.4(T) rifles. The principle was the Canadians would be working with American formations and should be similarly equipped. When the brigade came under British overall command, they switched back to .303s. The comment above about disposals falls in line with the narrative described by Clive.
Those double soled boots are parade boots. The model might have been ordered to wear his best uniform for the photo shoot, and no one worried about whether the boots were field-worthy or not - until you.
